[MD] The Individual Level

[Arlo J. Bensinger]

[Platt]
Exactly. The quality of the intellectual pattern depends on the individual
scientist's honesty. I think you've got it. 

[Arlo]
I never said "honesty" was not valuable. But it is not an intellectual pattern.
It is a social pattern.

[Arlo previously]
You would call lying to spouse about his/her weight gain "honesty"? Seems  to
me, then, you're simply saying "honesty" is whatever I say it is.

[Platt]
What would you call it? 

[Arlo]
Appropriate dishonesty.

[Platt]
We agree. But why not charge the NYT with treason and penalize them  according
to the law?

[Arlo]
Because I don't know if their actions were "treasonous". If they prove to be,
then they should be penalized accordingly.

[Platt]
I was asking for your opinion whether the NYT ought to be charged with treason.
Why are you reluctant to say?

[Arlo]
Because I don't know.


[Arlo previously]
So, following Pirsig's guides for getting in touch with Quality isn't 
important, but obedience to social level morals is? Strange, but to each  his
own.

[Platt]
Those are you interpretations of Pirsig's guides. I disagree with many of  your
interpretations as explained below.

[Arlo]
You don't really explain how you interpret them differently. All you do is
suggest that they be ignored.

[Arlo previously]
Well, "business" is a social level venture, so it really does not mean much  in
terms of my contact with Quality.

[Platt]
It figures you would duck the Quality of being dedicated to a free market.

[Arlo]
Quality is not dedicated to a free-market. A free-market is an economic system
(social) that strikes a balance between static and Dynamic forces. As such, in
the QPP definition, I refer instead to a person who seeks balance between the
static and the Dynamic. 

[Arlo previously]
A "Quality principled person" is someone who respects the oneness of  life. 
S/he is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind". S/he  holds her
values flexibley, and can be seen as filled with gumption. S/he  dislikes
specialization, and is an excellect all-arounder. In her/his work,  she
demonstrates no division between art and practice, and her/his work can be seen
as possessing beauty because of their unselfconscious way of looking at things.
The Quality Principled Person recognizes that Dhyana, or meditation, can be
used to empty out "static junk" that prevents access to Quality. Furthermore,
s/he will strive to find a balance between static and Dynamic qualities in all
aspects of her/his life.

Good?

[Platt]
I liked my interpretation better.

[Arlo]
What "interpretation"? The specific mention of a social level pattern? That
would be predictable, but where in Pirsig's discussions on arete and gumption
do you find "free-marketeer" as a hallmark of someone in touch with Quality?
Was Homer a free-marketeer? No mention, and yet Pirsig heralds his dedication
to Quality.

[Arlo previously]
This, of course, refers to the Homerian hero, who before S/O dualism  followed
arete. Pirsig writes, "Areté implies a respect for the wholeness  or oneness of
life". You disagree? Or is "arete" a liberal thing?

[Platt]
It's a liberal thing, Kumbaya.

[Arlo]
Arete is a liberal thing? Okay, if you say so. Pirsig goes on to say, "[Arete]
we translate 'virtue' but is in Greek 'excellence."" Lightning hits! Quality!
Virtue! Dharma! That is what the Sophists were teaching! Not ethical
relativism. Not pristine "virtue." But areté. Excellence."

So, "arete", excellence is a "liberal thing, kumbaya". From the mouth of Platt.

[Arlo previously]
S/he is patient, egoless and possesses a "beginner's mind".

[Arlo then]
What in my statement refers in any way to "liberals saving children with  other
people's money"? All these traits are those Pirsig describes as  necessary to
avoid gumption traps and to become "filled with Quality". You  disagree?

[Platt]
Like I said. We interpret some of Pirsig's views differently. Nowhere do I find
that he defined a QPP like you are trying to do.

[Arlo]
The above traits are those Pirsig equates with gumption, a trait he calls filled
with Quality. As such, they are traits that foster Quality-interaction. For
example, you berate "beginner's mind" with "liberalism". Pirsig says this,
"Boredom means you're off the Quality track, you're not seeing things freshly,
you've lost your "beginner's mind". How would you interpret that differently?
And he does indeed provide a framework for a QPP, that's what the gumption
discussion is. Ways to stay on the Quality track. And he provides values, such
as possessing a "beginner's mind", that achieve this.

[Platt]
And by the way, aren't all your definitions drawn from ZMM? Lila was his later
work, you know.

[Arlo]
In ZMM, Pirsig lays the foundations for knowing what Quality is. In LILA, he
lays the foundations for analyzing it. But, if you don't know what he means by
Quality (ZMM), Lila is purposeless.

[Arlo previously]
"Value flexibility" is liberal? Reaaaaally? Pirsig writes, "Of the value  traps,
the most widespread and pernicious is value rigidity. This is an inability to
revalue what one sees because of commitment to previous values. In motorcycle
maintenance, you must rediscover what you do as you go. Rigid values make this
impossible." I didn't read this as a condemnation of "conservatives", but if
"value flexibility" is liberal, then I suppose "value rigidity" is
"conservative".  Oh well, that's your dichotomy then.

[Platt]
Pirsig is talking about motorcycle maintenance. I was talking about political
expediency. You see? Different contexts, different interpretations.

[Arlo]
Of course, the "real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself". He
states clearly the motorcycle is simply an analogy. "Value rigidity", as Pirsig
clearly states, makes the perception of Quality impossible. 

[Arlo]
So, the following describes a "liberal". "Thus the hero of the Odyssey is a
great fighter, a wily schemer, a ready speaker, a man of stout heart an broad
wisdom who knows that he must endure without too much complaining  what the
gods send; and he can both build and sail a boat, drive a furrow as straight as
anyone, beat a young braggart at throwing the discus, challenge the Pheacian
youthat boxing, wrestling or running; flay, skin, cut up and cook an ox, and be
moved to tears by a song. He is in fact an excellent all-rounder; he has
surpassing areté."
 
So, according to you, liberals must then have suprising arete. Interesting.

[Platt]
Is THAT your description of a QPP? I wonder when was the last time you skinned
an ox. :-):

[Arlo]
Monday. But, you've already clarified that "arete" is a "liberal thing". So this
clears a lot up.

[Arlo]
No. A trait of someone who is in touch with Quality. A Quality Principled 
Person.

[Platt]
No. An individual level personal moral trait.

[Arlo]
Even within Pirsig, I think he'd place this on his "Code of Art" level, above
intellectual patterns, and certainly above "social" level individual traits.
But "craftsmanship" is not a "trait", it is something evidenced by someone who
is in touch with Quality. Hardly a "static pattern" as you want to make it out
to be.

[Platt]
Maybe [Pirsig is a liberal], except I like the Pirsig as I described him and as
he presents himself in Lila.

[Arlo]
Of course, you like the sections that support the Party. Does that's surprise
me.

 
[Arlo previously]
What you like is Rigel. It's all you every really argue for. Indeed, your
"principled person" could use Rigel as its poster child.

[Platt]
And your PPG is Bill Clinton, your poster boy. Bet you have a life-sized
cardboard cut out of him in your bedroom. So there.

[Arlo]
Really? You think Bill Clinton has a beginner's mind, is egoless and strives to
demonstrate art and practice as indivisible? I'm shocked! I may have liked some
of his policy decisions, but I'd hardly call him a QPP.

I don't have any cut-outs in my bedroom, but I did have a poster of Farrah
Fawcett. Does that count?