[MD] Emergent Consciousness

[ian glendinning]

3 days, no reply ?
Is that "collapse of stout party" ?
Or is Platt away for a while ?
Ian

On 7/17/06, ian glendinning <psybertron at gmail.com> wrote:
> Platt said
> "To each his own"
>
> I'm profoundly disappointed Platt if that's your best pitch for Ayn
> Rand's main message. You're not taking this seriously.
>
> You are Mr Inconsistent Platt - arguing for absolute truths in one
> thread, and each to his own in another. I'm trying to find the
> excliuded middle here.
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> On 7/16/06, Platt Holden <pholden at davtv.com> wrote:
> > OK, Ian. You gave if fair shot. Rand is not for everybody. But then,
> > neither is Pirsig. I think, however, when you look at the sales of
> > Rand's books compared to other modern philosophers, you have to admit
> > her appeal is rather broad. Of course, that doesn't mean she's right
> > any more than the Beatles' popularity means they produce good music.
> > It comes down to "To each his own" which is my rallying cry for
> > individuality.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Platt
> >
> >
> >
> > > Sorry Platt, probably no can do.
> > > You'll need to sell it to me ... the point that is.
> > >
> > > Supending disbelief for 250 pages now, is OK, but not for 1000 pages.
> > >
> > > It's dreadfully schoolboy's own stuff, with lousy engineering, lousy
> > > metallurgy, lousy physics, lousy politics, OK business, OK morality
> > > (triumph of the will, stuff), and even a little supense (though the plot
> > > is littered with easy hooks) but the sex takes the biscuit. Heroine (so
> > > far) in "a man's world" written by a woman, and every scene describes
> > > what she's wearing with added choice lines like "the soft material of
> > > her pristine white blouse was pressed against her breast by the wind
> > > from the locomotion" and variations on that theme. Will she, won't she,
> > > will they, won't they. Gimme a break from Mills & Boon.
> > >
> > > Tell me why I'm reading it.
> > > The question is "what is depravity". And her answer is ... ?
> > > Put me out of my misery. I'm fine with a spoiler or two; cut to the
> > > chase.
> > >
> > > You are the one with the solidified cast patterns. I have plenty to
> > > lose. Many productive hours of my time to add dynamic value. Although
> > > they listen to music (single composer, occasionally) I don't see Rand's
> > > characters wasting such valuable time reading 1000 word tomes. Like me
> > > they "just do it" (so far).
> > >
> > > Surprise me.
> > > Ian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/15/06, Platt Holden <pholden at davtv.com> wrote:
> > > > Ian:
> > > >
> > > > Read on, McDuff. You have nothing to lose but some static ideas. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Platt
> > > >
> > > > > Platt, earlier in this thread, before you and I eventually got to
> > > > > "first-base" on emergence from interactions (aka Quality), you threw
> > > > > in here "You should read Atlas Shrugged"
> > > > >
> > > > > Having previously read some of Rand's non-fictional philosophical
> > > > > work, I've not been impressed with her apparent stereotypical
> > > > > "objectivisim" - that won't surprise you - in fact I've blogged
> > > > > about it in previous years and "moved on".
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway given your repeated plea, I have actually obtained and
> > > > > started to read Atlas Shrugged. Given that I'm about 180 pages
> > > > > through my 1000 page edition, I need to know why I'm reading it ?
> > > > >
> > > > > The curiosity keeping me going so far is "why did Platt recommend
> > > > > it, what message did Platt think I would take away from it." I'd be
> > > > > interested to know.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are plenty of characters, central and incidental, that say a
> > > > > wide range of philosophical (and political) things about business
> > > > > and motivation. Some of it convincing, some of it claptrap (some of
> > > > > deliberately so, some of it maybe unintended no doubt). The point
> > > > > is, given that I'm sticking my neck out at this point less than 20%
> > > > > of the way through, I can see all the set-ups that are going to get
> > > > > resolved or turned on their heads as we go along. Suspending
> > > > > disbelief for a moment, that Rand is a "clever" novelist I could be
> > > > > interested in how some of those turn out, despite the fact that
> > > > > there are a lot of fictional elements I find hard to swallow - as an
> > > > > engineer with (real) interests from metallurgy to business operation
> > > > > and management.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I have the sneaking suspicion the characters whose opinions I
> > > > > find credible are the ones you (and Rand) will conclude are speaking
> > > > > claptrap. Where does this story actually take us as far as morals
> > > > > and purpose, capitalism and social engineering are concerned. Platt
> > > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian
> > > > > PS - What makes me really nervous is that all the "glowing credits"
> > > > > to "Rand's genius" on the back and inside covers are all from the
> > > > > "The Ayn Rand Institute", not from any credible independent sources.
> > > > > I must be some kinda mug ?
> > > >
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