[MD] Probability

[Case]

[Peter]
I appreciate Case's trial of new ideas but to say 'Uncertainty is Quality'
does not have meaning for me.

[Ham]
Nor for me, either.  I think the whole issue of Probability and Certitude is
a red herring.  The fact that a quantum physicist cannot measure or locate a
quark's position at the precise instant he is observing it only demonstrates
that man cannot push the frontiers of knowledge beyond his finite
sensibility.  I see no other relevance of these statistical theories to
one's ordinary experience of reality (present and past), Pirsig's Quality
thesis, or my philosophy of Essence.

[Case]
Perhaps if uncertainty were limited to an obscure branch of physics we could
afford to discount it. But since everything we see and touch is bathed in
it, that seems pretty "relevant" to me. I maintain that this is what
Pirsig's MoQ means.

[Ham]
Whether you equate the premise "The sun will rise tomorrow" as a probability
factor or a matter of "faith" or "trust", the fact is that the mode of human
experience is sequential in time, and we are denied knowledge of the future.
The philosophical significance of this fact is that we can make free choices
based on relative values in a relational universe.  

[Case]
Faith, Trust, Hope, Belief, Grace, Enlightenment...

These are all words we use to describe our attitude toward Uncertainty

As I pointed out from the very first post in this thread: the mode of human
experiences is precisely, NOT, sequential in time. Our nervous systems act
as temporal buffers. Sort of like randomly accessible instant replays of
experience. It is the temporal buffer that enables us to recall the past and
model the future. Choice is just a response to uncertainty based of the
quality of these internal reconstructions.

[Ham]
If man had access to absolute knowledge, there would be no uncertainy.  

[Case]
The point you are missing is that uncertainty can not be eliminated except
in the NOW, where it does not exist at all.

[Ham]
But neither would there be any value for him in the life-experience.

It is one thing for a philosopher to hypothesize a greater reality beyond
experience as the source of all finitude.  It is quite another for a
nihilist to deny the essence of our finite experience on the grounds of a
technicality resulting from the limitation of man's intellect.

[Case]
I have not denied the essence of our finite experience on any grounds.
Neither have I tried to define it.


If you search for purpose in anything greater than yourself or your family
or your community or your nation or your planet, nihilism is all you will
find. But, I say, if you look through that list, you ought to be able to
find something that suits you. And I would add that the farther down that
list you look that higher purpose you will find.

[Ham]
Let's face it, folks -- a relational world has its limitations.  We can live
life fully and enjoy its values.  Or we can spend our time despairingly
because we'll never have all the answers.  As free individuals, the choice
is ours.

[Case]
I don't recall speaking of despair. I have talked about Faith, Hope and
Trust. Living life fully and enjoying its values sounds like a valid Purpose
to me. In fact the only reason I need to search for Purpose at all is that
the future is Uncertain.

But having all of the answers would fill me with despair. There would be no
Freedom, no need for Hope or Trust. I rejoice in the Faith that Uncertainty
saves me from this.