[MD] Faith

[Case]

Peter said to Case:
It is only in philosphy forums that people talk about having faith that the 
sun will rise tommorrow; in any other situation it is never considered, it 
is an arificial use of language. I expect the sun will rise tommorrow but I 
don't have faith that it will. Faith always stinks of religion to me. Having

faith in something is a waste of energy. Better to gather your information 
and then make a considered guess about the future.

dmb says:
I'm with Peter here. Faith, by definition, is a belief held in the absence 
of evidence. The amount of evidence supporting the belief in tomorrow's 
sunrise is more than ample and so requires no faith.

And, intentional or not, using faith to describe the belief in tomorrow's 
sunrise only has the effect of putting religion and wishful thinking on the 
same level as astrophysics. Using faith that way defies the definition of 
the word and undermines the distinction between high and low quality ideas. 
It demonstates a lack of concern for intellectual clarity and scientific 
truth. Or, as Princeton Philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt would put describe 
it, this use of the word "faith" is bullshit.

Or so it seems to me.


[Case]
I don't think Faith is Bullshit or at least not in Frankfurt's likening of
Bullshit to humbug.

At some level each of us has to decide on a personal standard of Truth or
what they will accept as true. No matter what standard or standards you set
you will eventually confront uncertainty. You hit a point at which
unassisted reason can not guide you. 

It happens:
If you study physics or math 
If you work in a factory or live in a cave
Shit happens.

You say: 
"Faith, by definition, is a belief held in the absence of evidence." 

It is also:
Unconditional Belief
Belief without rationalization
Belief that cannot be logically proven or objectively known
Don Juan called it: Following the path with a heart.

Even establishing what constitutes evidence is an act of faith. 

With what word would you describe: belief that a mathematical axiom is true
or that there are virtual particles?
Or that the world is not just ideas?
Or the there is anything outside of yourself?

I think Faith serves pretty well. I can think of lots of really high quality
ideas that I accept on Faith. Like the validity of mathematics and the power
of reason. 

I may be wrong but it seems that Peter shows what the real issue is when he
says: "Faith always stinks of religion to me. Having faith in something is a
waste of energy."

This seems like little more than prejudice. I would be interested to know
what single word conveys why you think "gathering information" or
"intellectual clarity and scientific truth" are important if not Faith?