[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Individual level)

[Gene M]

> There are those who have argued that an individual is not the source of
> ideas but that they emerge magically from the culture.


As opposed to ideas magically emerging from individuals? Where do you think
individuals get their ideas? The entire intellectual level is built on the
social level. Individual's ideas come from the society they live in. Either
for or against it, but still defined by it. I see you trying to say ideas
Have to come from a single person, or Have to originate magically everywhere
at once. This is just a dichotomy you invented and decided to pit against
itself. Ideas come from both. The individual gets ideas from society, and
gives them back to society generally, for others to mull over.

I don't think so. The static collective values of such institutions as
> governments, churches, schools, labor unions, the ACLU, etc. remain
> distinct from individual values.


This seems very much like what I am saying. There are many large, organized
groups based around intellectual ideas. Especially School, and Science.
They're a large conglomeration of people coming up with ideas together. Sure
each idea comes from an individual first, but then everyone works on it.
This is not social, but intellectual.

I see the levels as patterns of value which is the same as patterns of
> morality which is the same as patterns of moral codes. The intellectual
> level fights to preserve the moral codes of free speech, free press,
> property ownership, etc. to protect individual intellectual patterns
> from dominance by social moral codes such as "go along to get along"
> "be a team player," and "shape up or ship out," etc.


Agreed, those are all intellectual ideas, and society would be just as happy
to smother them. However society cannot exist without them, since it would
then stagnate and probably implode. So by arguing For these ideas, were not
arguing against society, but actually For society.

The social  level is not interested in freedom. It's highest value is
> conformity. It is the intellectual level that says "No" to conformity
> and sets us free to pursue DQ as each of us, individually, understands
> and responds to DQ's "only good" which happens to be -- surprise,
> surprise -- freedom.
>

You seem to think DQ can only be arrived at through the social level. All
levels are in direct contact with DQ at all times. All the levels strain
towards it. Society is attempting to achieve DQ in it's own way, as is
biology, and even inorganic patterns strive for DQ. It's just each strives
in different ways.

Here's a useful quote from Lila on this one I think:
"When they call it freedom, that's not right. "Freedom" doesn't mean
anything. Freedom's just an escape from something negative. The real reason
it's so hallowed is that when people talk about it they mean Dynamic
Quality"

Freedom is just the Intellectual level reaching for DQ. Just as Sex is the
biological level reaching for DQ.

I would also challenge the link between an individual and their ideas. Sure,
they had a great idea, but that doesn't make the individual important. It
makes the Idea important. If they hadn't had it, someone probably would have
later. The individual is almost of no importance to the intellectual
pattern, just a way to get it out. The whole idea of an individual level is
pretty silly quite frankly. An individual comprises all levels, so how can
we assign only one of the levels to them? It's like putting all the levesl
onto that one level, it's nonsense. No offense intended.

-Gene