[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Individual level)

[Gene M]

> Oh? Where in society does an idea reside before an individual discovers
> it?


 That's like asking where in inorganic patterns an entire human being is
contained! All the parts of the idea are already existing in the social
mythos. Notice that in ZMM after Phaedrus came to the knowledge of Quality,
he looked back and found all sorts of historical documents that he saw as
referencing the very idea he had just come up with. Like pieces of the
puzzle had been staring at us all, until someone finally put them together.
Intellectual Patterns come from the Society. It's a basic principle of the
MOQ.

Platt: Glad you agree each idea comes from an individual FIRST. What I've
> been
> saying all along. When others start working on it, it becomes social.
> The social level is defined by "others." For example, this site taken
> as whole is in the social level. Individual contributors are in the
> intellectual or individual level -- for the most part. :-)
>
> Me: You seem to think DQ can only be arrived at through the social level.
>
> Platt: No. Only through the individual level.


I apologize, I meant to write Intellectual level. That was my mistake.

Pirsig stated that only a living being (individual) can respond to DQ,
> stated in a context of human beings. I agree. Perhaps you can
> illustrate how inorganic patterns, for example, strive for DQ.


Easilym, Pirsig spends the early parts of Lila going over this. He states
that in one could view Evolution as a long series of escapes from inorganic
patterns. Such as Gravity. The more evolved something is, the more freedom
it has from Gravity, and the other physical forces. So the DQ for inorganic
material was to try and liberate themselves from these forces, so they came
up with the idea of linking together, to form new molecules, until they
struck upon DNA and Proteins as a means of propagating their DQ changes,
while holding onto the Static Quality enough not to degenerate back into
base molecules. And they built themselves up and up and up until finally
biology was achieved. That was DQ for inorganic patterns according to
Pirsig.

What good is an idea that lies buried in some mysterious Never-Never
> Land? Seems to me the first individual to unearth it is the important
> part of the equation. They are celebrated for good reason.


Have't you ever noticed that almost all great intellectual patterns have
arisen from multiple sources at once it seems? The telephone was patented by
3 people within a few weeks. Calculus was introduced by 2 seperate
individuals with no contact within months of each other. I think if you
stopped thinking of ideas as somehow subjugated to Humanity, you'd see
things much clearer. Just like Inorganic Patterns wanted to get free of the
forces controlling them, this same drive for freedom applies to Intellectual
Patterns. Ideas want to be free, they're trying to escape out into the world
to thrive. The idea is as much an individual as the person who thought it
up. Respect it.

Remember, celebrity it s purely social method of propogation and control. So
by celebrating an Individual, you're making them important in Society.
You're actually taking him back Down to the social level by making him
important.

As you know, the levels are not only known by what's contained in them,
> but by their relationship to other levels. As an individual, wouldn't
> you be most fulfilled if your intellect dominated all the other levels
> that you are comprised of? I would. No offense intended.
>
> Furthermore, Pirsig's levels are evolutionary and historical. The rise
> of the individual above conformity to society reflects evolution and
> history--as the story of the brujo illustrates.
>
> It's the dynamic, not the static, aspect of the levels that I think are
> more revealing of reality and how the world works.
>
> Platt


 I think to ignore the static levels is folly. The DQ tells us an immense
amount about how the world works, but to interpret and understand that we
Need static patterns to fit it all into. Otherwise we would go crazy,
clearly. The MOQ isn't about the rise of Individuals, it's about the rise of
Intellectual Patterns. For the time being we're the best source of them, but
who knows! In a thousand years, maybe ideas will be completely divorced from
humanity, living on all on their own. Intellectual Patterns are Not our
creation, they are Quality! We are partly Their creation. We don't own them,
they own Us!

-Gene