[MD] Distinguishing Levels

[david buchanan]

Matt, Mike and all distinguished levelers:

Matt said to Mike:
The trouble I have with the social/intellectual distinction you'd still like 
to field (one that "unleashes intellect") is that it sets up the old 
Enlightenment dichotomy between Tradition and Reason.  On the philosophical 
score, that dichotomy fails for the same reasons SOM fails.  That dichotomy 
is what led to purer and purer versions of SOM till we finally get to 
scientific realism in this century.  The cold light of Reason shall lead us 
to the Truth....  I think the tearing down of SOM requires us to tear down 
the Reason/Tradition dichotomy, and after we tear that one down I don't 
think there's much left of the social/intellectual distinction....

dmb says:
Yea, roughly speaking, the difference between tradition and intellect is the 
difference between the 3rd and 4th levels of the MOQ. But I don't see how 
that distinction fails, or how it leads to scientific realism, or why it has 
to get torn down along with SOM. Take me through it, will you? Because I 
don't see how you can get from A to B. And its pretty clear that Pirsig 
didn't see it that way. He not only has a third and fourth level in the MOQ, 
he also devotes quite a lot of Lila explaining Western history and politics 
in terms of a conflict between them. Its pretty clear that he's willing to 
retain the distinction even after rejecting SOM's assumptions. And I think a 
big part of what he's doing is to correct the SOMish mistake of dismissing 
tradition outright by showing their evolutionary relationship, explaining 
how the baby was thrown out with the bathwater in the process of 
differentiation, etc.. The MOQ does not use Reason with a capital "R" or 
Truth with a capital "T", nor does it use reason to destroy tradition or 
ignore reason in defence of traditon. Instead it tries to put these rivals 
in a larger perspective, tries to give each its due and tries to say 
something about the limits of both.

But there's one thing I bet we can agree on here, Matt. Ayn Rand doesn't 
help on this point and neither does Platt.

I think Rorty won't help here either, but you tell me.

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