[MD] Bill's Intellectual Level

[Platt Holden]

[Platt]
> Honor is about truth and honesty. It's intellectual, as Pirsig makes
> clear:
> 
> "Truth is an intellectual pattern of values. Is science unconcerned? A
> scientist may argue rationally that the moral question, "Is it all right
> to murder your neighbor?" is not a scientific question. But can he argue
> that the moral question, "Is it all right to fake your scientific data?"
> is not a scientific question? Can he say, as a scientist, "The faking of
> scientific data is no concern of science?"
> 
> Like I said, honor, honesty, truth come from a deep intellectual 
> understanding of how the world works at its best. You can't cheat or
> fool Mother Nature.
> 
> [The Jarloker]
> As Pirsig makes clear??? No where in that quote do I see "honor".
> 
> And from what I gather, "honor" can indeed involve dishonesty. Thinking
> about the Johnny Cash song, "The Long Black Veil", where the singer
> takes a murder rap rather than causing shame for his best friend's wife,
> isn't that an example of "honor"? At yet its both dishonest and a lie. I
> also looked up "honor" at Dictionary.com, not one reference to "truth"
> or "honesty". (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honor). So I
> looked it up at Merriam-Webster (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/honor).
> No reference at all to "truth", and only one mention of "honesty", at
> the very end of the page, as a "see in addition", not even part of the
> 10 meanings MW provides.

Speaking of honesty and honor, you deliberately failed to mention the  
definition in Merriam-Webster: "Integrity -- a keen sense of ethical 
conduct - one's word as a guarantee of performance." You also failed to 
mention that Merriam-Webster cites Honesty as a synonym for Honor.

If you look again at the quote about faking data, you will see Pirsig is
talking about ethical conduct and integrity. The implication is clear. A
scientists who fakes data is dishonest. No one can ever trust her 
again. She has violated the intellectual (individual) Honor Code. 

> Honor is a social-level value, as Steve and then Ant both have shown.
> Now if you'll excuse me, Johnny Cash bekons...
 
IMO, anyone who looks to pop music lyrics to bolster their arguments, 
whether from Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton or the Beatles, has a serious 
educational deficit. :-)

Platt