[MD] Bill's Intellectual Level

[Arlo Bensinger]

  [The Jarloker previously]
Let's face reality here. Clinton committed adultery. When evidence of this 
surfaced, it should have been brought to the attention of his wife, first 
giving Clinton himself an opportunity to tell her himself. Then the matter 
should have been left to the family. Instead, politicos used this family 
tragedy to embarrass Clinton by making him answer a question in public 
court that had nothing whatsoever to do with any criminal investigation, 
and whose only purpose was to bring ridicule, hurt and humiliation. That is 
as shameful, and dishonorable, as what Clinton did in having an affair... 
if not moreso.

And, yes, personally Platt, I feel that protecting the reputation of those 
who would otherwise be hurt by pointless and politically-manuevered 
personal questions to be more 'honorable" than not. The tragedy is not just 
the affair, its how others have used (and still use) the situation to 
ridicule, hurt and publicly humiliate others just to advance a political 
agenda.

[Plattman]
Talk about rationalization for an accused rapist and a liar, this takes the 
cake.

[The Jarloker]
Was Clinton found guilty of rape? Aren't we presumed innocent until proven 
otherwise? Or is that something we demand only for those in our own party?

But its hardly rationalization. This is the way it should have been handled 
for anybody. You are merely doing just what I said, using the situation to 
ridicule, hurt and humiliate, all for nothing more "noble" than party 
politics. Shameful. Yes, he lied. Yes, he committed adultery. But to seek 
to exploit this, and manipulate ridicule and humiliation for The Party, 
hardly makes you any better. Were this to happen in your family, Platt, I'd 
hope it could be handled and dealt with by the family, and not used by your 
enemies publicly to bring shame and humiliation to anyone involved. Why 
should I wish less for Clinton? Oh, that's right. If someone is from a 
different party, we must exploit every means to hurt them. How sad that is.

[The Jarloker previously]
I compare a man to a man. I compare a lie to a lie. Deceit to deceit. Why 
one is unforgivable, while the other is dismissed is for you a matter only 
of which Party they belong to. Nice duck and run, though.

[Plattman]
Clinton lied to judge. Rush didn't. Clinton lied to the country. To  my 
knowledge Rush didn't. If he did, prove it. Also compare the treatment by 
the liberal press of Rush compared to Patrick Kennedy. One gets pilloried, 
the other gets a pass. Please explain.

[The Jarloker]
Lying is only wrong if you "do it to a judge"? Seems to me, if we consider 
one man's dishonesty shameful, we should consider another man's as well. So 
whether it was Clinton's lying to a judge, or Rush's daily lies about his 
drug addiction, a lie is a lie is a lie. No? As for Patrick Kennedy, he 
deserves the exact same sentence Limbaugh got for his illegal drug 
activity. What was that, by the way? Ah, yes. Random drug testing for 18 
months. No jail. No service. And he doesn't even have to admit to guilt in 
court. Was it the same sentence you or I would have gotten?

[Plattman]
Is a scientist or anybody else obligated to publish anything? No. You 
brought up the Internet venue. I didn't.

[The Jarloker]
No, you said "honor", and later "integrity" were intellectual values 
associated with "truth". Why on earth would my "obligation" or not to 
publish my truthful findings have anything to do with "honor" or 
"integrity" on my part? Unless, you mean that my obligation is to others 
first... in which case publishing "truthful" findings that provide the 
means to bring harm to others would be "dishonorable".

[The Jarloker previously]
I propose this. "Honor" is really "duty towards others". The flipside of 
"virtue", which is "duty towards self". Other than the use of "honor" to 
refer to an award, every time we speak of someone doing something 
"honorable", or "acting with honor", we tie that to a selfless act that 
benefits others, often at risk to oneself. When a marine runs back onto the 
field to retrieve an injured friend, he is acting with honor. When the 
protagonist of The Long Black Veil takes a murder rap rather than besmirch 
the honor of his friend's wife, he has acted with honor. But, I'm willing 
to listen if you can think of examples of "honor" where the act/person is 
not taking self-risk to help an other.

[Plattman]
 From Merriam-Webster who you cited as an authority: "synonym see in 
addition HONESTY."

[The Jarloker]
How cyclical. Okay, can you provide one example of usage where honor is 
equated with "honesty", and not with self-sacrifice for others? I'll wait...

Arlo