[MD] Platt's Individual Level

[Arlo J. Bensinger]

[SA]
As I've said before you put an Einstein in the Amazon rainforest and he might
say E=mc2 and the locals will say take this bow, hunt, and eat something.  The
cultural discussion continues....

[Arlo]
Hey SA. Here we get to that fundamentally distortive aspect of the dialogue, the
one where you have to CHOOSE "individuals" or "collectives". It is a
nonsensical "choice". "Ideas", such as "E=mc2" are collaboratively built over
historical time by "individuals" participating in a collective dialogue. As
such, no "idea" is attributable to one individual. Take the MOQ. As you said
about Einstein needing others to come up with "E", "m" and "c" in order for him
to say "E=mc2", so did Pirsig need Kant, Plato, The Chairman, the secretary who
said "I hope you are teaching Quality", and many others. A Pirsig born into the
Amazon would have no way of formulating a MOQ (and possibley no need to
either).

There are those who profess that such a view completely defavors the individual.
This is nonsense. But what it does do is stress the dialogic relation between
"individual" and "collective". I have suggested in the past, much to the
Plattman's chagrin and consternation, that we consider "individuals" in
"collective activity" through the metaphor of an "ecological system". As such,
one could say that Einstein was the Keystone Species in the formulation of
E=mc2, and Pirsig was the Keystone Species in the MOQ. But neither would have
been able to do either without the support of the collective dialogue, without
others in social participation, over historical time, negotiating, arguing and
reforumulating.

In the ecological metaphor, the "mythos" would likely be the full context of the
system, with other individuals acting as various other species. Kant, Plato and
Dusenberry would likely be strong, "near-keystone" others. While Chris, the
secretary, and various others whose participation was indirect (perhaps) would
be part of the system but not keystone. I should point out too, that this
metaphor provides the ability to include "non-human" artifacts as mediational
means (to use Vygotskian language). Thus, Pirsig's location in a culture that
contains pens, typewriters, paper, computers, etc. demonstrates that these
material artifacts shape, contribute and enable activity.

Whether or not you find the ecological metaphor of value, I hope you never lose
sight of Dewey's reminder that "Thus the individual is only a meaningful
concept when regarded as an inextricable part of his or her society, and the
society has no meaning apart from its realization in the lives of its
individual members." This "game" is not a choice where one must completely
value ONE or the OTHER. They are integral co-components, a Yin and a Yang, if
you will.