[MD] Platt's Individual Level

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting "Arlo J. Bensinger" <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [SA]
> As I've said before you put an Einstein in the Amazon rainforest and he might
> say E=mc2 and the locals will say take this bow, hunt, and eat something.  The
> cultural discussion continues....
> 
> [Arlo]
> Hey SA. Here we get to that fundamentally distortive aspect of the dialogue, the
> one where you have to CHOOSE "individuals" or "collectives". It is a
> nonsensical "choice". "Ideas", such as "E=mc2" are collaboratively built over
> historical time by "individuals" participating in a collective dialogue. As
> such, no "idea" is attributable to one individual. Take the MOQ. As you said
> about Einstein needing others to come up with "E", "m" and "c" in order for him
> to say "E=mc2", so did Pirsig need Kant, Plato, The Chairman, the secretary who
> said "I hope you are teaching Quality", and many others. A Pirsig born into the
> Amazon would have no way of formulating a MOQ (and possibley no need to
> either).
> 
> There are those who profess that such a view completely defavors the individual.
> This is nonsense. But what it does do is stress the dialogic relation between
> "individual" and "collective". I have suggested in the past, much to the
> Plattman's chagrin and consternation, that we consider "individuals" in
> "collective activity" through the metaphor of an "ecological system". As such,
> one could say that Einstein was the Keystone Species in the formulation of
> E=mc2, and Pirsig was the Keystone Species in the MOQ. But neither would have
> been able to do either without the support of the collective dialogue, without
> others in social participation, over historical time, negotiating, arguing and
> reforumulating.
> 
> In the ecological metaphor, the "mythos" would likely be the full context of the
> system, with other individuals acting as various other species. Kant, Plato and
> Dusenberry would likely be strong, "near-keystone" others. While Chris, the
> secretary, and various others whose participation was indirect (perhaps) would
> be part of the system but not keystone. I should point out too, that this
> metaphor provides the ability to include "non-human" artifacts as mediational
> means (to use Vygotskian language). Thus, Pirsig's location in a culture that
> contains pens, typewriters, paper, computers, etc. demonstrates that these
> material artifacts shape, contribute and enable activity.
> 
> Whether or not you find the ecological metaphor of value, I hope you never lose
> sight of Dewey's reminder that "Thus the individual is only a meaningful
> concept when regarded as an inextricable part of his or her society, and the
> society has no meaning apart from its realization in the lives of its
> individual members." This "game" is not a choice where one must completely
> value ONE or the OTHER. They are integral co-components, a Yin and a Yang, if
> you will.

Arlo seems to have forgotten about the Giant.

Platt







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