[MD] Platt's Individual Level

[Case]

> [Case]
> I don't see any Muslims on your list but the best estimate of American
> genocide of native people suggests that the population of North American
> peoples was between 1.2 and 12 million in 1492. It was reduced to under
> 250,000 by 1900.

[Platt]
Best estimate by whom, Ward Churchill?

[Case]
I had never heard of Ward Churchill before but, my god man, I give you
figures of such wide range and covering such a long period of time, that I
thought it was a total pass on the subject and still you want to quibble
numbers?


> [Case]
> I do not feel guilty for act that I did not commit. (I have plenty to
keep  me awake at night on that score.) But to feel no shame that your
government did these things is another matter. That it has not repented
is even worse.
> But to claim that we are morally superior because we are a bit behind in
the  numbers games is morally reprehensible.

[Platt]
If you want to feel shame for something you didn't do, be my guest.
Collective  shame is no more sensible than collective ideas.

[Platt quoting Pirsig]
"Primitive tribes such as the American Indians have no record of sweetness
and cooperation with other tribes. They ambushed them, tortured them,
dashed their children's brains out on rocks." Pirsig

Over the past year while I have seldom agreed with you I have at least
respected your passion and eloquence. But for you to claim to have read
Pirsig and to put this forth as a summary of his position on Indians is
nothing short of pathetic.

There was a recent discussion on synonyms and the various nuances similar
words carry. Shame is quite different than guilt. Shame is a feeling of
sadness tinged with empathy and remorse. The deepest source of shame for
me is that anyone could take the kind of bald faced self righteous
ignorant position your comments imply. I am ashamed because at some deep
level I know that, had fate twisted a bit differently, my own skull has
the potential to contain such thoughts. I am shamed because I can look at
the things my people have done and what my fellow citizens advocate today
and see that we a doomed to commit these same atrocities over and over
again. Whether we do it in the name of communism, fascism, Islam, Christ,
tribal faction or to spread “liberty” matters not a whit.

I do not WANT to feel ashamed but in this case you have compelled me to it.