[MD] Argumentation: Social/Intellectual

[David M]

Hi Gene

yes this is wht Heidegger says that dying makes us individuals.

DM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene M" <boredandunstable at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Argumentation: Social/Intellectual


> Matt said:
>>   These arguments _are_ the person.  We don't _have_ static
>> patterns, we _are_ static patterns.
>
>
> I think that is Exactly right. We don't have ideas, ideas have us. We 
> can't
> own intellectual patterns, it seems contrary. We are shaped by our ideas,
> created by them.
>
> Matt:
>> I was wondering how you would answer my suggestion that thinking of ideas
>> as
>> disconnected from the person is, contrary to what Pirsig seems to suggest
>> sometimes, anti-Pirsigian.  I've forwarded an argument attempting to
>> dismantle the underpinning of what allows you to say the above, which I
>> take
>> to be typical of a bad social/intellectual distinction.  How would you
>> respond to the argument?
>>
>> I should also point out that the dream of Enlightenment philosophy was
>> exactly the extension of the Platonic dream of ideas being entities
>> themselves.  I would warn away from such things, particularly because if
>> ideas are "not creations of an individual" I wonder what they are.
>>
>
> I dunno how Much I feel they are disconnected. Currently, I would say they
> are incredibly tightly linked. But I mean, I would say I as a person am as
> much shaped as ideas other people have come up with, as by the ideas I 
> have
> come up with. In fact, most of the ideas I have are reformulations of
> someone else's ideas it seems. If I can be affected as strongly by and 
> idea
> from "Outside myself" as one I come up with "inside" my head, then where 
> is
> the link between individual and idea? Sure an individual has the idea, but 
> I
> mean, so do lots of individuals.
>
> How about this? When an individual person dies, does society fail? Do all 
> of
> their ideas simply dissapear? No. It seems like death is the end of static
> biological patterns, but the static social and intellectual patterns that
> made that person up continue on after biological death. So how can that
> persons ideas belong to them? It seems like the only thing we really own 
> is
> our body.
>
> I'm not sure how to get across what I'm trying to say, I'm not even sure 
> I'm
> straight on what it is I am trying to say! Ask me more questions, and 
> maybe
> I can coalesce these thoughts.
>
> -Gene
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