[MD] Ham & swiss cheese

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

>From: Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] Ham & swiss cheese
>Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:10:34 -0800 (PST)
>
>Dan Glover,
>
>
>Did you ever here of the caste system?

Hi SA

Yes I have. And it sounds suspiciously like just another excuse. Blah, blah, 
blah. Poor me, my daddy is an alcoholic and my momma smokes crack and I'm 
gonna grow up to be just like them. Poor, poor me...oh me, oh my.

>Arlo has
>been statistically stating in 'Unreality of Equality'
>that people generally retain the class their parents
>were in, in this culture.  So do you really think
>everybody can be materially rich?

Being wealthy and being materially rich are two different notions, imo. I 
think that right now, everyone has access to unlimited wealth if they so 
desire. What one has to do is to define what wealth means, to them.

But to answer your question, yes. I know for a fact that anyone who follows 
certain well-defined steps will without a doubt become materially wealthy. 
Period. How badly do you want it? Not badly enough, otherwise you'd be 
taking those steps to wealth now, this very moment.

>Don't you think
>some people no matter how much they try and want to be
>materially rich will not be?

Sure. People are forever taking the easy way over the hard way. It's easy to 
fail. Success is difficult. It's easy to whine and complain about poor me, I 
have to live in a basement without windows. It's tough to get out there and 
take action. Please don't talk to me about trying and wanting though. It's 
all bullshit and deep down, you know that too. But hey, don't take my word 
for it. Do this little experiment for me: try and want in one hand and crap 
in the other, then let me know which hand fills up faster. I will be waiting 
anxiously for your reply...

>We could use the 'Moment on the Mountain' in our
>workplace and government.  Those times when the
>government is the cause of such and such situation
>that I could avoid if the government or culture was
>more in my hands not in its' habit doing,
>bureaucratic, static caste, machinery.  I agree with
>Arlo when he said we need a balance since I would note
>there are a number of people who would still not
>exercise their intellect (which does need exercised
>just as the waist line does to stay fit) and thus, we
>as a society come across these people who gain
>influence, yet, influence without the 'Moment on the
>Mountain' to help them.  I would notice their
>influence as dimly blind and more habit than conscious
>kind of behavior.  We all can't be materially rich as
>you state Dan. It would not be possible.

How do you know that? I would posit a guess that this is something you've 
been taught and so well that you firmly believe it. So firmly in fact that 
even if someone handed you untold riches you wouldn't accept it.

>I don't
>think we have to be materially rich to be happy.

Again you're confusing wealth and material riches. But, as a famous person 
(I don't remember who right off hand, maybe Platt could remind me) once said 
(I am paraphrasing), I've been poor, and I've been rich, and believe me, 
rich is better! The MOQ isn't about happiness. It IS about what's better!

>My
>focus is not on the $.  My focus is what I value in
>life such as I have been stating, my wife, dog,
>family, earth/sky, philosophic discussion, cutting
>wood, fishing, walking in the woods, camping, and
>etc... (I know the list has grown but I value much
>within the etc...).  My focus is not on how much $ I
>can make.  It is on when will I see my wife again, and
>we can go fishing, walking in the woods, and
>comforting each other with hugs.  This is constantly
>on my mind.  That is why I meditate to alleve these
>desires that cannot attach to what they want at times.
>  Yet, does meditation rid these desires?  Of course
>not.  And why not if meditation is so helpful?
>Because I believe meditation is helpful in staying on
>course with this undefinable reality, and when this
>reality is defined I keep coming back to those
>'things' I value.

Okay, a question for you: if you know what you value then why are you 
wasting precious time complaining about the lack of that which you do not 
value?

>
>      To keep myself calm and focused upon what I am
>doing so I don't become too distracted.  To take that
>moment to breath with a clear skull so I am living and
>valuing the simple bliss of life as much as practice
>allows.
>
>Zazen!

Lots of people seem to confuse meditation and zazen but you probably know 
they are actually different practices. While I do meditation on occasion 
(when I'm troubled), I sit in zazen at least three times daily. No reason, I 
just do. My body prefers zazen. I notice there are benefits to my sitting 
but those benefits are not the reason I sit. There is no reason. I quit 
drinking and smoking some years ago on account my clarity was being 
compromised during my zazen. I just stopped one day. The desire to continue 
the practice of drinking and smoking simply ceased at some point although I 
cannot really put a finger on when it happened. I do know it was a benefit 
of my sitting and not a result of it, however.

Anyway, thanks for your reply and sorry if I've upset you.

Dan