[MD] moq_discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 17

Sun Mar 5 02:27:37 PST 2006

Hi Platt

I agree with your points about moral values coming
into play with regard to behaviour.

But there's two problems that I can see you don't
address. One is how do you evaluate the moral value of
children who have potential, but not yet the
transforming behaviour of say nobel prize winning
scientist or a Nelso Mandela? The MOQ is not strictly
ulitarian though some may believe it to be so.

Secondly, before you label someone "terrorist" you
have to define first what it is. Was the atomic bomb
drops on Hiroshima and Nagasaki a terrorist act by
killing innocent civilians and creating terror in the
society? Or how about Kissinger's carpet bombing of
Cambodia? Or the USs sponsoring coups in Iran and
Chile in the '50s to depose a democratically elected
leaders?

As a matter of fact, politicians and lawmakers have
refused to define a "terrorirst" because it might
catch them in the net. A value judgment is a bunch of
hot air derived from an egotistical form of
self-preservation. It relinquishes to biology what
should properly be a social realm. The social realm
recognizes that cooperation supercedes the divide and
conquer concept. And hypocrisy is the most socially
inept value there may be.

Cheers,
amirman

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: God is dead. (beauteak4u at aol.com)
>    2. Windfall (beauteak4u at aol.com)
>    3. Re: Just coincidence? (Peter Corteen)
>    4. Re: Unreality of Equality (Platt Holden)
>    5. Re: Ham & swiss cheese (beauteak4u at aol.com)
>    6. Re: Just coincidence? (Peter Corteen)
>    7. Re: Ham & swiss cheese (Heather Perella)
>    8. Re: Julian Baggini Interview with Pirsig
> (David M)
> 
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>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:54:39 -0500
> From: beauteak4u at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [MD] God is dead.
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Message-ID:
> <8C80D998D338569-9F0-1CFB3 at mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Sometimes simple is god, i mean good.  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 22:43:17 -0000
> Subject: Re: [MD] God is dead.
> 
> 
> a good point.
> 
> DM
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <beauteak4u at aol.com>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] God is dead.
> 
> 
> > Isn't "God" whatever you say it is...or not?
> > 
> > John Lennon said: God is a concept by which we
> measure out pain....
> > Is Lennon wrong?
> > 
> > Smith 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Sent: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:51:00 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [MD] God is dead.
> > 
> > 
> > At 05:03 PM 3/2/2006, Ian wrote:
> >>Marsha, from one atheist to another ...
> >>
> >>Perhaps therefore our "god" is nature ?
> >>
> >>Ian
> > 
> > God is a word.  Nature is an experience.
> > 
> > Marsha
> > 
> >   
> > 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 07:02:07 -0500
> From: beauteak4u at aol.com
> Subject: [MD] Windfall
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Message-ID:
> <8C80D9A9866E1DE-9F0-1CFBA at mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Could a sudden windfall ( money ) made available to
> MOQ.org and it's members 
> value ( not cause ) a change? Could it value a
> quantum leap to a place where others, maybe even
> powerful others might take notice and listen?
>  
> Who would we need to target?
>  
> Smith
>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:15:53 +0000
> From: "Peter Corteen" <psigenics at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MD] Just coincidence?
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Message-ID:
> <48b5e6d40603040415h2be722e2v at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Hi Joseph,
> 
> my mention of spontaneous chrystallisation and
> monkeys washing potatoes was
> because I was reminded of them by your examples - I
> didn't mean to suggest
> that  when two people say the same thing at the same
> time that is caused by
> chemical chrystallisations!  I have shared  that
> communication experience
> many times too; it is a happy sensation and is a
> great example of the power
> of all four of Pirsig's static levels of quality
> forming a foundation strong
> and flexible enough for such a dynamic new event.
> That Lyall Watson book was
> called 'Supernature' - I don't know whether you will
> still be able to find
> it, I read it  about 35 years ago; I don't 
> recommend it, though I was very
> impressed (gullible) at the time.  I don't know
> whether the spontaneous
> chrystallisation phenomenon is real - it was just
> something I read about a
> long time ago, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned
> them but I wasn't sure
> about the focus of your email and was being
> provocative I suppose.
> 
> You said 'What is mind if not a collection of
> values?' - I like that. I
> don't think the mind is limited to the brain - we
> are psycho-physical
> organisms and have sensation throughout the body -
> indeed even beyond the
> body through sight, hearing and touch; to a certain
> extend I can partially
> relocate my self or mind from it's usual home (the
> brain) to say my hand
> merely by focusing my attention there.
> 
> I don't think that when animals sense an impending
> earthquake or volcano
> they are displaying supernatural abilities - I
> watched a docu-drama about
> Krakatoa recently and it seems that the scientists
> in that area 'sensed' the
> volcano months before the local animals did through
> their scientific
> devices. What I mean by supernatural is, as the word
> suggests, 
=== message truncated ===

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