[MD] Ham & swiss cheese

[Heather Perella]

Dan,

     I guess I'm not done, because for some reason
maybe both of us are not trying to understand the
other person.  You are stuck on this idea that
everybody can be wealthy.  Maybe everybody can be
wealthy and have all this wealth you dream about at
night.  Maybe we all can live comfortably and have
enough wealth to the point where none of us have to
work as much.  Don't you think people will still have
to work those long hours to produce those wealthy
things you want so much?

     I said:  "When I think materially rich I think of
what the richest person has and does, and he certainly
does not clean up after himself."

     Dan said:  "Remember who you're talking to. I've
cleaned up the god awfulest messes you've ever seen.
I've  been knee deep in cockroach infested garbage
wearing a respirator because of the stench. Let me
tell you, it wasn't rich folk making the mess. It was
poor trashy people who didn't give a damn."

     You took this a bit personal.  I was just saying
people who are wealthy enough to afford people to have
butler's, daily house cleaners, that's all.  I'm sure
everybody has cleaned something in their life.  Sure
even people who can't barely afford people to clean
their houses may still come up with the money
somewhere.  I'm just pointing out that having that
kind of extra money to be used for those kind of
purposes would make a niche for cleaning people and a
whole business of them.  That's not an argument with
me.  

      I said:  "So don't we need people to clean hotel
rooms, houses, garbage, etc..."

     Dan said:  "That isn't true. Again, remember who
you're talking to. One of my businesses consists of
cleaning up after people. It doesn't matter if they're
rich or poor...people make messes. It's wonderful! It
never stops!"

     Are you misunderstanding me a lot or something? 
I said we do need people to clean hotel rooms, houses,
garbage, etc...  This idea of diversification that
everybody can do.  How much does each person in this
culture need to diversify until we are all satisfied
with what we have?  Take these questions as questions.
 Wealthy is subjective to how much wealth is enough. 
If I compare myself to say you I might not be as
wealthy.  You to Bill Gates and you're (look I spelled
it right, does that make you happy?) not going to be
seen as wealthy.  It's relative.  You like to think
I'm complaining and sometimes I do, but don't take
this question as a complaint.

     I said:  "Yet, in this culture will they get as
much money as the person we signs their paychecks and
also rents apartments over here for those people to
live in, which he/she gets that money back to play the
stock market and build a whole chain of fast food
restaurants, just to diversify, and on and on.  Your
not making logical sense."

     Dan said:  "But at least I know the difference
between your and you're!"

     Are you happy that I did it correctly above?  By
the way, did you dodge this or what?

     Dan said:  "Some of my clients are rich, some are
not. I market to everyone."

     Good for you.  I think I was just generalizing,
but I guess you felt like saying this.

     Dan said:  "Please tell me where I said you could
leave behind your duties and expect to be rich. You
need to please pay attention. I talked about
developing multiple streams of income, not quiting
your duties."

     I guess you think everybody can be wealthy.  I
guess you think there is no limit to each person being
wealthy and thus this culture could be egalitarian. 
You think this culture could (1) be changed or (2) be
lived up to a potential that it is not actively
partaking with.  Think of philosophy as a thought
exercise don't get all emotional with me and start to
think I'm complaining - ok?  (Yes, I have complained
as I have stated, but it is a lack of understanding on
my part.  Don't get emotional and frustrated with me. 
Let's just think this through.  Maybe you've got
something here and I am blind to it - ok?)

     I said:  "There will be poor and rich in this
culture except it, or do you question this static
pattern and think it could change?"

     Dan said:  "I prefer being wealthy to being poor.
You are free to make your own choice."

     So (1) you don't believe this static quality of
the current U.S. culture, as to wealth, is here due to
not choice, in other words if all people in this
culture wanted to they could choose to be wealthy. 
(2)  If all did choose to be wealthy then it would
happen according to what you are saying.  (3)  You
depend on some people not choosing to choose wealth
for wealth to exist for the people who do choose
wealth.  (4)  You believe in an egalitarian culture. 
Which one or multiple ones maybe do you think or is it
something else?

     Dan said:  "What have you offered me other than
insults? Now, tell me, who is being compassionate?"

     When did I insult you?  I know you think I'm
crabby, but who said that you or me?  Maybe you're
right - I am crabby at times.  I'm not here to duel
with you.

     Dan said:  "You came here complaining and I
attempted to 
suggest an alternative."  

     Again, is your alternative diversifying income
for wealth or is it to write paragraphs about how I
complain and suffer you or is it both or have we moved
passed this?

     Dan said:  "Maybe you don't think I am listening
because what I am saying isn't what you expect to
hear. You want someone to commiserate with you, right?
I'm sure you can find plenty of that from other people
but not from me."

     What I meant by not listening was a miss on my
part to your philosophy which I understand now is
diversify income and everybody will have wealth and we
will live in an egalitarian culture.  Right?

     I said:  "What is the difference between rich and
wealthy that you talk about?  I didn't know we were
talking about two things here."

     Dan said:  "This is something you're going to
have to learn yourself. But I assure you, we are
talking about two different things."

     I guess it's a secret until I know the secret
then it won't be a secret anymore.

     I said:  "What is the difference between zazen
and meditation to you?  To me they are the same."

     Dan said:  "Meditation concerns holding an image
in the mind's eye. Zazen, nothingness; emptiness."

     From the way I understand zazen is in part from
Master Shunryu Suzuki in a book complied from his
talks by his disciples titled, "Zen Mind, Beginner's
Mind" who was a direct spiritual descendant of Dogen. 
He interchangeably uses meditation and zazen.  He even
says while doing zazen and you have a problem then you
have a problem this is zazen and when you don't, you
don't this is zazen.  I don't know where you found a
difference between meditation and zazen.  From the way
I understand zazen, zazen is to be done all day and
night.  Sure you could just sit their, and that is
proper practice, but practice does not stop while you
sit.  It continues while you wash dishes and type on
the computer.  It is an exercise continually
sharpened.  Zen is applied to bow and arrows.  This is
popular Zen practice as well.  Tea ceremony and flower
arrangement and so forth.  Zazen is sitting, but when
you sit in zazen and leave from sitting the point of
zazen practice is to perform zazen even when you leave
from sitting.  This is the concentration of the zazen
practice.  This is Zen.  There are no differences in
Zen, thus, no differences in zazen.

     Dan I am not bent on being right and thus
somebody has to be wrong.  I am more concerned on
being accurate.  Sorry if I came or come across in a
way that is disturbing, that is not my intention.  

     Larz said:  "Dan, you are the man.  Your last
dance with Tarzan was perfect.  Thanks."

     I'm glad I could embolden your man
(testosterone), meaning you Larz.  I am not wrestling
for a win by me, just a win by us, even you Larz. 
Thanks.

     Dan I guess I keep coming back to this discussion
for accuracy's sake.  I might not have a full
understanding of the world and your philosophy does
come from a different angle, but I am making an effort
to be open-minded and will make an effort to at least
understand your experience.  I do not want to leave
this discussion with confusion in our dust as we
depart.  Again I apologize if I came off as somebody
who seemed to be distant from your perspective.  

SA
  

     

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