[MD] Barbarians & Hippies

[Horse]

Hi All

Nice post Anthony. One of the main points here, worth re-iterating, is that the hippy ideals 
were correct but seemed to take the wrong route. Now, with forty years of hindsight and a 
worthwhile guide in the MoQ that can now be corrected.
Waddaya know, for once in my life I got something right! 

Cheers


Horse


On 5 Mar 2006 at 23:55, Ant McWatt wrote:

> Platt Holden stated to Dave Buchanan, March 5th 2006:
> 
> >Platt asked Arlo:
> >I mean, could you give us some idea of what we might expect from turning
> >the clock back to the 60’s to abstract what was right?
> 
> DMB answered:
> 
> >They (hippies) were serious about peace, rights and freedom. They wanted 
> >the culture to be more beautiful and less cruel in all sorts of ways. 
> >(parens added)
> 
> I had to laugh at the similarity between DMB’s answer and Pirsig’s 
> description of 60’s intellectuals:
> 
> “What passed for morality within this crowd was a kind of vague, amorphous 
> soup of sentiments known as “human rights.” You were also supposed to be 
> “reasonable.” What these terms really meant was never spelled out in any way 
> that Phaedrus had ever heard. You were just supposed to cheer for them.” 
> (Lila, 24)
> 
> I have yet to hear an answer to my question from Arlo, DMB or anybody else 
> other than a “vague amorphous soup of sentiments” that we’re supposed to 
> cheer for.
> 
> 
> Ant McWatt comments:
> 
> Platt,
> 
> You have heard an answer to your question (on February 1st) of what the 
> “vague amorphous soup of sentiments” being cheered for in the Sixties were - 
> at least regarding Hippies.   Unfortunately, you appear to have been 
> suffering from a bad case of “Pox-news” again (where the patient forgets 
> things and turns a nauseating shade of blue).  However, luckily for you, the 
> MOQ doctor is here at hand to treat your symptoms...
> 
> Firstly, to remind you, in his text “Hippies From A to Z”, Skip Stone, the 
> Webmaster and Editor of Hippy.com, states that being a hippy is primarily 
> concerned with the MOQ emphasis on freedom and an openness to new 
> experiences:
> 
> “My view is that being a hippie is a matter of accepting a universal belief 
> system that transcends the social, political, and moral norms of any 
> established structure, be it a class, church, or government.  Each of these 
> powerful institutions has its own agenda for controlling, even enslaving 
> people. Each has to defend itself when threatened by real or imagined 
> enemies. So we see though history a parade of endless conflicts with country 
> vs. country, religion vs. religion, class vs. class. After millennia of war 
> and strife, in which uncounted millions have suffered, we have yet to rise 
> above our petty differences.”
> 
> “The way of the hippie is antithetical to all repressive hierarchical power 
> structures since these are adverse to the hippie goals of peace, love and 
> freedom. This is why the ‘Establishment’ feared and suppressed the hippie 
> movement of the ‘60s, as it was a revolution against the established order. 
> It is also the reason why the hippies were unable to unite and overthrow the 
> system since they refused to build their own power base. Hippies don’t 
> impose their beliefs on others. Instead, hippies seek to change the world 
> through reason and by living what they believe.”
> 
> “To be a hippie you must believe in peace as the way to resolve differences 
> among peoples, ideologies and religions. The way to peace is through love 
> and tolerance. Loving means accepting others as they are, giving them 
> freedom to express themselves and not judging them based on appearances. 
> This is the core of the hippie philosophy.”
> 
> Above all, note the following:
> 
> “The hippy movement erected signposts for all to see. Some warn us of 
> impending danger, others direct us towards richer, more fulfilling lives, 
> but most show us the road to freedom. Freedom is the paramount virtue in 
> this system. Freedom to do as one pleases, go where the flow takes you, and 
> to be open to new experiences. This engenders an attitude that allows for 
> maximum personal growth.”
> 
> (http://hippy.com/hippyway.htm)
> 
> What the MOQ (which, btw, was written by an 1950s hippie, turned 1960s 
> intellectual) adds to traditional (SOM) hippy philosophy (concerning freedom 
> and an openness to new experiences) is a recognition that if the social 
> patterns aren’t given due recognition and looked after to some extent, the 
> intellectual (as with a woodman cutting the wrong side of a tree branch he’s 
> sitting on) will find the underlying support required for his intellectual 
> patterns disappearing.  And, in fact, that’s probably the central point of 
> Chapter 24 (rather than just being an anti-intellectual or anti-hippy tirade 
> as you falsely portray it):
> 
> “The Metaphysics of Quality suggests
 it is immoral for intellect to be 
> dominated by society for the same reasons it is immoral for children to be 
> dominated by their parents.  But that doesn’t mean that children should 
> assassinate their parents, and it doesn’t mean intellectuals should 
> assassinate society.  Intellect can support static patterns of society 
> without fear of domination by carefully distinguishing those moral issues 
> that are social-biological from those that are intellectual-social and 
> making sure there is no encroachment either way.”
> 
> In addition, though “seeking to change the world through reason and by 
> living what they believe” (as Skip Stone stated above) is fine for the 
> intellectual level and Dynamic development in themselves, is has to also be 
> remembered that the means of communication between intellect and biological 
> patterns is not directly through discussion but indirectly via social 
> patterns e.g. “prisons and guns and police and the military” (LILA, Chapter 
> 24).  (That’s the error, Pirsig’s professor neighbour made when trying to 
> deal with his neighborhood criminals.  “Gee, I politely told my local 
> gangster it’s immoral to sell crack cocaine on the corner but he just spat 
> on my dog and then – using some very impolite words - told me to leave the 
> area 
’).
> 
> However, just in case, anyone is under the illusion that the MOQ supports 
> the type of Victorian ideology held by right-wing politicians and yourself, 
> note that Pirsig is also at pains to emphasise that “nothing better” has 
> generally replaced the Hippy philosophy of the 1960s in the subsequent 
> decades since then:
> 
> “Today, it seemed to Phædrus, the overall picture is one of moral movements
> gone bankrupt.  Just as the intellectual revolution undermined social 
> patterns, the Hippies undermined both static and intellectual patterns. 
> NOTHING BETTER HAS BEEN INTRODUCED TO REPLACE THEM.  The result has been a 
> drop in both social and intellectual quality
  A WHOLE SOCIETY THAT HAS 
> GIVEN UP ON DYNAMIC IMPROVEMENT AND IS SLOWLY TRYING TO SLIP BACK TO 
> VICTORIANISM, THE LAST STATIC RATCHET-LATCH." (MY CAPITALS)
> 
> To sum up then: Chapter 24 of LILA informs us that the MOQ builds on the 
> intellectual revolution of the 20th century and the hippy philosophy of the 
> 1960s but also sees where they went wrong (namely their SOM assumptions) and 
> how society has been adversely affected by these assumptions.   So, by 
> offering a Dynamic way forward (rather than backwards towards Victorianism), 
> the MOQ offers society genuine hope (as Kevin might be interested in 
> hearing).
> 
> However, beware the sound of a cracking branch!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Anthony.
> 
> 
> “If the hippy movement failed because they were confused about the 
> difference between biological quality and Dynamic Quality, between pleasure 
> and spirit, and the MOQ clears up that confusion, then a MOQish hippy is 
> what we need, right? That's what I tried to do in FUN WITH BLASPHEMY. I 
> mean, if Platt or anyone else is actually interested in some kind of answer 
> to Platt's question...”
> 
> Dave Buchanan, March 5th 2006
> 
> 
> (Just in case anyone doesn’t know, Dave’s impressive FUN WITH BLASPHEMY 
> paper can be found at: www.robertpirsig.org.)
> 
> 
> .
> 
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