[MD] Hippies in Sodom and Gomorrah

[Platt Holden]

> [Arlo]
> *You* will get nowhere because I think Al Franken is wrong on many
> accounts, 

Such as?

and I think Rush has been right about some as well

Such as?

 >I have yet to hear one thing from you since I've
> belonged to this forum that deviates from Limbaugh's words or the words
> of the right-wing apologists. You can try and try and try to deny this,
> but it is quite evident.

How do you know if you haven't listened to Limbaugh in over a year?
For example, do you know his position on the Dubai-port terminal  
issue? What is yours?

> [Platt]
> But for a great many people, many just as  intelligent as you consider
> yourself to be, the conservative view has  much to offer, particularly
> the view that the values of free speech,  freedom of religion, trial by
> jury and other intellectual "rights" guaranteed by our Constitution are
> worth defending from exterior threats by fighting for them.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Here is where you just fall back to your typical distorition. First,
> these values you mention are as dear to "liberals" as "conservatives".

But are they willing to fight for them? That's the question. 

> In defending these values from "exterior threats" we must be willing to
> recognize that our actions are part of the dance, and to work towards
> prevention and not simply extermination. I've said this countless times,
> and yet you continue to paint me as somehow "unconcerned" about these
> values. If you'd put aside for one moment, just one, those deceptive
> dichotomous glasses you wear, you'd see this. 

If all efforts at "prevention" fail to deter Iran from acquiring atomic 
weapons, what do you suggest we do? Will you ever say in your non-
dichotomous world, "Enough is enough?"

> You'll get your war, don't think for a moment you won't. And they can
> paint Pirsig's picture on the Moral Bombs that detonate on millions of
> people, and you can wave your flag high and shout to everyone who is
> left how righteous you are. Next time, though, let's put a little
> thought into preventing this, eh?

War can be prevented by appeasing those who threaten violence. But 
there will always be crazies like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, 
Saddam, bin Laden and Ahmadinejad who have no compunction about 
employing violence to attain their ends, regardless of how we might try 
to appease them. Thankfully there have been leaders in the past like 
Wilson, Roosevelt, Churchill and Reagan who stood up to the criminals 
and defeated them. I hate to keep repeating Pirsig's advice on how to 
deal with criminals, but I guess it's necessary since you don't seem to 
get it. 

"The idea that biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that 
you can talk crime to death, doesn't work. Intellectual patterns cannot 
directly control biological patterns. Only social patterns can control 
biological patterns, and the instrument of conversation between society 
and biology is not words. The instrument of conversation between 
society and biology has always been a policeman or a soldier and his 
gun." (Lila, 24) 

"A soldier and his gun." How clear can he get?      

I'll be away for a few days, so don't take my silence as ignoring you. 
:-)

Platt