[MD] atomic bomb and torture

[Arlo J. Bensinger]

[Arlo previously]
Hm. And can you supply the appropriate reference from Pirsig that would
indicate that society has a moral right to kill when it is not
threatened?

[Platt]
Society has the moral right to wage war to defend itself. Often entire 
populations, both civilian and military are involved in the war effort. 
The option is to surrender without a fight.

[Arlo]
Can you give me an appropriate reference from Pirsig indicating that society has
a moral right to kill when it is not threatened? That is what we are
discussing, not its "right to defend itself". Can you give me any Pirsig
reference that indicates that the threat must only be "perceived" and not
"real"?

[Arlo previously]
Can you supply the appropriate refernece that indicates that the MOQ
justifies killing Person A to protect itself from Person B?

[Platt]
As said, waging war often involves the whole society. See Pirsig on the 
morality of the Civil War.

[Arlo]
Context dependent. Can you give me a refernece where Pirsig says that killing
Person A to prevent a potential threat from Person B is morally justified?

[Platt]
The Japanese population was engaged in war as were the Allied 
populations. The bombs shortened the war, saving thousands of lives on 
both sides.

[Arlo]
Killing civilians to protect the lives of military combatants is "moral"? Your
logic here opens up all kinds of cans of worms. At best, this is using a
hypothetical to justify an actual. At worst it suggests that as soon as a
country is "engaged in war", its civilian population become legitimate targets.



[Platt]
The MOQ didn't invent morality.

[Arlo]
But you claim the hippies were unable to see, or understand, the social or
intellectual levels. How was the US government able to do so?

[Arlo previously]
Anyway, I'll be waiting for those Pirsig references. I'm especially
eager to see his words that justify killing Person A to (let's extend it
to real world situations) prevent the POTENTIAL that Person B might do
us harm.

[Platt]
There is considerable moral difference between threats to society that 
can destroy the rights of all citizens compared to threats to society 
from individual criminals that affect relatively few. Pirsig recognizes 
this moral difference in his comparison of the morality the Civil War 
vs. capital punishment. As for your question,  who are persons A and B 
and what's the situation?

[Arlo]
Still waiting for those appropriate references. Add references for this last
intepretation, please.

Arlo