[MD] God is dead.

Thu Mar 23 04:11:07 PST 2006

On 3/21/06, Margaret Warren <carma at carmapro.com> wrote:
>
> And Jimi thus spoke:
>
> "Until we give up the love of power, we will not know the power of love."
> Jimi Hendrix
>
> Paul was the first used car salesmen.
> My interpretation is that in the New Testament,
> Jesus told all the disciples that none
> of them were 'getting' it' - none of them
> ever completely understood or conceived of the beauty of the message.

I agree with you about none of them understanding the message.  It's kernal
 is the transcendance of "the world", sin and death.  Buddhism has a simular
edict.

EXCEPT perhaps Thomas, who's gospel wasn't published -
> I think there is a Harvard biblical scholar I've heard of
> who has studied this gospel and concluded that it wasn't published
> because it put much of the responsibility for finding love and peace
> in your own heart back into your own hands. Paul
> wanted to "sell" people on the idea that you
> could find peace by getting saved through the idea of Jesus
> and thus allowed you the ability to hand over responsibility for
> yourself to someone else. It helped that
> not everyone could read and you had to tithe to a priest to
> get this sense of peace.
>
> IMO, the bible has a great deal of interesting parables and concepts
> in it, but as Marsha said - it was written by fallible men -
> and we each take what we want from it. The way I look at it,
> Jesus was a really cool hippie dude with a nice message (mostly

No disrespect intended, but I think the same can be said of Robert Persig.

gathered from Eastern beliefs). AFTER he died (and all of the
> other mumbleejumbo), a bunch of people
> (namely Paul) figured they could make a profit off of riding
> on his coattails.

They were much more likley to be killed for it.

You know the joke about God & the Devil having a conversation about
> this cool thing called love and how they should share it with
> the humans on earth and the Devil said, "good idea - you create
> the idea and I'll organize it".
>
> As far as I'm concerned,
> considering ALL of the suffering that is STILL happening at
> the hands of Christianity, Paul embodies the devil.
>
> Marsha said to Robert:
> >I am not surprised at your reaction.  I might be interested in your
> >views of the MOQ.
>
> I too am curious...what's a Christian religious zealot doing in our midst?

I'm not zealous about Christianity.  I'm in your midst because I find the
MOQ to be a far better way of seeing the world.  I looked long and hard in
Persig's work for contradictions with my understanding of Christianity but I
haven't found any,

Like Persig, I too had many problems with the world that S/O (science)
metaphyisics presented to me.  I might suggest to you that when Paul tells
Christians to "walk in the spirit" it is no different than finding and
holding the Dynamic edge of reality.

I like what Peter said:
> >The moq I see as an attempt to try to say some things about quality that
> we
> can all agree on and
> >thereby create a moral framework that can be used to help resolve complex
> issues.

If you define good or God or Quality as something desirable outside of
yourself that you should reach for, socially, intellectually and morally (or
in a way that is not yet definable) then you can't expect to discover
frameworks.  They're static.  Life migrates away from patterns.

But I will remind you that the frontis peice in ZMM suggests we don't need
anyone to tell us what is good. We already know what is good.

I don't know if we'll ever be able to "agree" on quality. In fact sometimes
> I am of the
> opinion that some people on this group wouldn't know quality if it hit
> them
> right
> smack in the head.

I don't know why.  It seems pretty simple to me.  There are only two things
in the world; i.e. Static and Dynamic Quality. Everything in the world is a
manifestation of statc quality or a pattern of value,  except for those
things that are emerging right now.  They're dynamic.  But maybe we can make
it simpler by attempting to come to an agreement on what is good.

But I think Peter is right, a more thorough discussion of
> Quality is what we're trying to accomplish here - including spiritual
> overtones is natural, but I think
> bringing the religious evangelism into it just moves us back into the dark
> ages.

Well, I wouldn't want to darken this place.  I do recall however that the
bible says that light came into the world and the darkness knew it not.

I didn't come to this group to cause it to slip  backwards. I'm interested
in learning to clearify the MOQ in order to teach others about it and to

mm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Peter Corteen
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:21 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] God is dead.
>
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Religious people are taught the constraint that they are powerless in the
> face of their 'God'. Realising atheism returns the knowledge that we can
> 'do' and we have choice and will. As Don Quan said to Carlos: 'Power
> commands you, but you command power'.
>
> Peter
> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>
>
> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>

--
- BuyGmail at MontanaFree