[MD] False Messiah

[david buchanan]

Scott, Peter and y'all:

Scott said to Peter:
How do you know that, given that you are not a stick or a stone? They have 
value to us, of course, but the MOQ says they have value in themselves, and 
that's what I'm asking about. ...What we know through scientific instruments 
tells us nothing of whether or not electrons experience value. Yet the MOQ 
says they do. In other words, you are dodging the issue.

dmb says:
I'm with Peter here. As I see it, Scott is asking Peter to explain a claim 
that nobody made. I don't think anybody is saying that they can read the 
"minds" of subatomic particles or any other kind of inorganic level 
patterns. The MOQ simply asks us to replace causality with preferences, to 
replace physcial laws with patterns of preferences. Nobody is saying that 
they know what its like to be a rock or an electron. This is no a matter of 
faith, because this alternative way of describing inorganic reality is still 
based on the very same labratory data, from the very same scientific 
instruments. In other words, this alternative explanation is based on 
empirical data. Its not based on faith and its not even an assumption. Its 
just one valid conclusion based on the known facts.

Scott said to Peter:
...I obviously agree that if faith results in one's stopping one's thinking, 
then it is bad. But what I've tried to show is that -- for those who take to 
heart the dictum "reason requires faith and faith requires reason", faith 
leads to a new and higher level of thinking, not its stoppage. That makes it 
desirable.

dmb says:
I think the only way to make faith valuable here is to re-define the concept 
as your heart-felt dictum apparently attempts to do. What does it mean to 
say that reason requires faith when faith is understood as believe in the 
absence of evidence, or even contrary to evidence? Faith is trust given 
rather than earned, don't you think? Among the classic figures in 
Christianity there is a tendency to put reason in the service of faith, to 
make it subservient to to faith, faith's little bitch. That's what I smell 
here and I think it really stinks.

Jeez, burn a match or something will you? Open a window. Pew!

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