[MD] False Messiah

[david buchanan]

Scott and all:

I think most points were addressed in the post I sent earlier, but...

Scott said:
...Since theologians, all of whom call themselves theists, have consistently 
pointed out that talk about God must be taken analogically, symbolically, 
and so forth, I don't know where you're getting the idea that theists take 
God-talk literally.

dmb says:
You seem to think that literalism has to be some childish concept of a giant 
bearded man in the sky. But as long as one is asserting the actual existence 
of a supreme being, which defines a theist, one is being literal. This being 
is the object of theology. Even if they are careful not to attribute any 
concrete qualities, they are still operating on the assumption that such a 
being exists.

Scott also said:
...My point is that you continually attack Christianity, as if they were all 
locked into a particular belief system.

dmb says:
Well, yes. Christianity is a particular belief system. Everbody knows that 
its not monolithic, but my criticism is aimed at the most basic features of 
Christianity, the ones that can more or less be found in all demoninations. 
As with the difference between Jerry Falwell's brand and the more 
sophisticated theological thinkers, they share some common assumptions. 
That's whay it makes sense to use the label "christian" when talking about 
Catholics or Baptists. The difference that have created the splits between 
the various kinds of christianity are relatively minor. Did you know, for 
example, that the founding father of America's contemporary fundamentalism, 
especially with its emphasis on the literal return of Christ, was an 
Anglican priest? (John Nelson Darby) And the kind of literalism I'm 
complaining about is also expressed in the catholic catechism.

Scott said:
It's my personal opinion that a spell of secularism is good for people, and 
for religion in general -- but only if one goes back to religion, though now 
fully purged of superstition and such.

dmb says:
OK. As I see it, theisitc religions not only fail to help with spiritual 
development and growth, they actually prevent it. Instead of serving human 
happiness, cultural evolution or the health of society, theisitic religions 
have become a scourge on the earth.

Scott said:
You say there is a huge conflict between the secular world and "the 
religious one". There isn't. There is a huge conflict between those whose 
religion leads to suppression of individuality, freedom, and so forth, and 
those who don't like that. On the "don't like it" side are many religious 
people. Yet here you are lumping them with the Pat Robertson's. Remember, 
over 40% of American Christian voters voted for Kerry in 2004. These are 
people who dislike the neo-cons and the Christian Right as much as you do. 
Yet you would alienate them to preserve your prejudice against theists. Not 
very politically astute, in my opinion.

dmb says:
Well, what I'm getting at with this crusade against intellectual unjustified 
beliefs is the conflict between social and intellectual values in a process 
of cultural evolution and whether you are willing to accept the fact or not, 
the anti-intellectuals are presently in charge of everything. The fact that 
40% of American christians voted for Kerry sort of glosses over the fact 
that 90something percent of Americans believe in God and nearly that many 
are christians. This sort of glosses over the fact that an avowed secularist 
or atheist could not be elected President in this nation. And if you can't 
see that this movement is anti-intellectual from head to toe, I would like 
to suggest that you're a bit oblivious to what's going on. In the last 
election the american voters had no real choice and in fact they have never 
really had a choice in that respect. The US is, by far, the most religious 
nation in the West. Presently, global tensions are more or less centered 
around Jerusalem, a place that each of the three great Western religions 
feels necessary to control for religious reasons. However you wish to 
characterize this state of affairs, you can't really deny it. There are 
billions of witnesses.

I suppose it goes without saying, but these charges of obliviousness are 
based on the assumption that you live on this planet with the rest of us. I 
mean, we are talking about the same world, aren't we? The sky in my world is 
blue. How about yours?

dmb

P.S. Your momma is fat.

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