[MD] False Messiah

[Scott Roberts]

Peter,

Peter said:
you are saying that the quantum level is non-spatiotemporal. What are those
observations at the quantum level that lead you to describe that realm as
non-spatiotemporal?  Is it that  you can't measure speed and location at the
same time, or speed and mass? That stuff is fascinating: so the photon is
neither a wave nor a particle and can have no information of it's own
location in spacetime! Just what are it's properties then?

Scott:
Unmeasured, it is in a superposition of states, which is not possible in 
spacetime. Measured (made spatiotemporal), it is in one state. Then there is 
the non-locality stuff. I recommend Nick Herbert's *Quantum Reality* for 
details.

Peter said:
But I think your main point was that because the world out there is
essentially quantum and therefore non-spatiotemporal then what about
Darwin's theory which depends on the spaciotemporal (reason) to support it.
I also understood you to say that the processes of evolution were random
(non-spaciotemporal and unreasonable). How can the non-deterministic give
rise to the deterministic? That's the mystery of the blind watchmaker.

Scott:
No, I didn't say the processes of evolution were random and unreasonable. I 
think they are reasonable and non-random. What I am saying is that sense 
perception turns the quantum world into the spatiotemporal world. Therefore, 
evolution is an evolution of consciousness, which includes sense perception. 
And I don't see anything as deterministic, except in the analogous sense 
that now that I have chosen the words in this sentence, then the sentence is 
fixed.

Peter said:
Consciousness, sense of self, source of we-feeling, built on reason is
waxing it seems to me. Consciousness is the immaterial yang leading edge of
evolution and the unreasonable material world of our senses is the yin
residue that evolution leaves in it's wake. What a mish-mash.

Scott:
Waxing? What does that mean? And who said anything about "the unreasonable 
material world"? It seems pretty reasonable to me, now that I have a theory 
about the senses creating it from the quantum world. It's the Darwinist 
picture I find unreasonable, for the reasons described (the problem of a 
temporal process being aware of time passing, and the Munchhausen fallacy).

It is not a mish-mash. It is just unfamiliar. It takes a fair amount of 
re-arranging of concepts, of changing traditional ways of thinking before it 
starts making sense. Again, I recommend Avery's book "The Dimensional 
Structure of Consciousness: A Physical Basis for Immaterialism".

- Scott