[MD] strong wind

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

>From: "Margaret Warren" <carma at carmapro.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>Subject: Re: [MD] strong wind
>Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:27:05 -0600
>
>S:
> >Kudos indeed Margrett!

Hi Margaret

Yes I agree! Wonderful photos!

>
>As for Lila and the other ideas in this thread:
>
>
>It doesn't surprise me that Dan said that RMP was also Rigel. I would also
>assume that
>he could be Lila too. For Pirsig to be both, goes along with
>my other comments above (he both believes in the MOQ and doesn't at the 
>same
>time). I think this makes perfect sense and it also creates a wonderful
>screen for him to stand behind. If Rigel takes all the pot shots at him in
>the book, then that's less of them he has to take from the rest of the
>philosophical world.

Yes, Mr. Pirsig said that he was Lila too. Here is an excerpt from our 
discussion:

Dan Glover: Rigel seems representative of the negative quality that 
celebrity
brings in its wake. I get the feeling that the character of Rigel was
modeled after more than one person?

Robert Pirsig: No Rigel is just me, setting the stage for the MOQ. I tried 
to think
of the best attack I could make and then put it in his mouth. One
interviewer asked me, “Are you really Phædrus?” The answer was, “Yes I 
really am Phædrus. I also really am Richard Rigel. I also really am Lila. I 
also really am the boat.”

Dan Glover: I must confess I took the position during one discussion with 
the
group that Phædrus and you were not the same person. I wrote that
from reading the letters others in the group had shared from you I
gathered you were warm and humorous but I found Phædrus to be
somewhat cold and so dog-gone serious all the time. I wrote that
Phædrus seemed to be a mask, like the masks we all wear, which
seems related to our attempt at objectifying our inner values by
creating idols (as you discuss on page 459 in Lila). It occurred to me
since reading your notes on “big self” and “small self” that I’ve been
considering the person as “small self” while you’re using the context
of “big self”?

Robert Pirsig: Yes, Phædrus is overwhelmingly intellectual. He is not a 
mask,
really, just a literary character who is easy for me to write about
because I share many of his static values a lot of the time. I don’t
think big self and small self are involved here. My editor wanted me
to make him a warmer person in order to increase reader appeal. But
making him warmer would have made him more social and weakened
the contrasts between himself and Rigel and Lila that were intended to
give strength to the story. The fact that everyone seemed to think that
Phædrus was me came as an unpleasant surprise after the book was
published. I had assumed that everyone would of course know that an
author and a character in his book cannot possibly be the same person.


>
>As an artist trying to find ways to survive off of the fruits of my 
>creative
>endeavors,
>I feel it takes a great deal of courage to put the contents of your
>character out there in the
>world and pretty damn scary actually to go out there and face up to people
>who
>are going to look for every way possible to slam you, ESPECIALLY in the
>world of
>philosophy. My hat is off to Dan who had the courage to publish Lila's 
>Child
>- I haven't read it yet, but I will try to find or order a copy this week. 
>I
>have read some of the other
>items on the moq site and will read more as I find the time.

Thank you for saying so! My "work" on LC was a labor of love and I am still 
unsure whether it was courage that allowed me to publish the book or merely 
stupidity. The jury is still deliberating...

>
 >If we can look at art, read books, listen to music,
>fix a motorcycle, build a school or whatever with a sense of Quality (with
>a capital Q) - then it also should be a part of our connection to each
>other as people. Has anyone discussed W. Edward Deming's (also
>called, the Prophet of Quality) business management philosophies here?
>Here is an example of someone actually trying to bring a philosophy of
>quality
>into something that most regular people (business majors - :) can get.
>I am embarrassed to admit I can't remember if Pirsig references Deming or
>not in Lila as I've only read Lila once.

No he does not. Deming is mentioned in LC, however, so yes, he has been 
discussed here.

>
>SA said:
> >  I don't get much practice philosophically
> >discussing outside of the MOQ.org.  Yet, I hope with
> >this practice I will have the awareness of noticing
> >when the "...surrounding leaves eventually..." begin "...burning down the
>whole forest..."  Actually I hope our intellect is sharp enough to
> >recognize when a cigarette is being lit to be thrown on the pile of 
>leaves
>
>Well, sometimes all the intellect in the world won't help you see something
>going on in front
>of you. I think of the sea turtle swimming unknowingly into a net it can't
>see.
>The image of the Kite that I did was partly about that - if you read any of
>the description
>I wrote that accompanied the image. It was based on a dream I had, which
>represented two things
>to me: 1st) the idea that we don't always knowingly choose a path that will
>entangle us, so we should be gentler with ourselves - in my dream it was a
>kite simply drifting along when it's string became wrapped around an 
>osprey.
>
>and 2) we cannot solve problems with the same mind that created them (which
>is paraphrased from a quote by Einstein). (Because in my mind, in the 
>dream,
>I was
>both the osprey and the person with the task of rescuing the osprey). We 
>are
>always
>free to change our mind about anything. Like putting on a new suit.

I like this. Thank you once again for sharing.

Dan