[MD] French ingredient in the soup of sentiments

[Heather Perella]

Hello Joseph and all,


>       Joseph said:  "Democracy is intellectual, from
> the point of view of the maths, science and
> psychology involved in maintaining a democratic
government."
> 
> S.A.      We do not live in a democracy in the U.S. 
> We live in a Republic.
> 
> Joseph. I run the risk of sounding pedantic but the
> US of A is not a 
> Republic, in the sense that Ancient Greece, early
> Rome and Renaissance Italy 
> had Republics, there there where intellectuals, a
> Republic from my 
> perspective is a form of government run by the
> intellectual elite. Authority 
> and education emanate down through the ranks.

     A Republic is a representative form of gov't.  We
do not live in a democracy, because we the people do
not directly handle the affairs of society.  We depend
on representatives to do this for us.

> S.A.  Does this change anything in our
> >current discussion?
>   It depends on who we vote into
> >office.  What is their level of application?  Are
> they
> >strictly social or intellectual?  (JCB
predominately
> social, though they 
> >spend a lot of time on the biological according to
> the media tittle tattle, 
> >and if maths and science are the foundations of
> MoQ's definition of 
> >intellectual then they have access to that level as
> well. However I am yet 
> >to see a modern politician look Intellectual, where
> they have the object 
> >they are talking about in their mind and can look
> at it from numerous 
> >angles. It is seen in the eyes, when it is in play.
> Most politicians trade 
> >on the social, which for a democratic party is
> sensible, they have to have 
> >the masses on their side. Independent intellect
> brings out resentment in 
> >the masses, thus in today's age intellectuality is
> political suicide, which 
> >throws more doubt on the long term validity of
> democracy."

     I would still contend that we live in republic
and a democracy would be even more intellectually
capable since we would not be depending on
representatives.  We would be running the affairs of
society on our own.

  JCB continues:  "Everything 
> >changes, democracy will not reign indefinitely. Is
> it not already running 
> >out of ideas?)"

> S.A. Now-a-days who is intellectual in Washington,
> seemingly nobody.  Even 
> if
> >they didn't do much I would give them credit, but
> >since the system depends on them doing a lot then a
> >flaw exists.
> 
> (Not one politician alive today has a grasp of the
> giant, I do not think any 
> of them see it, let alone capable of taking it to
> pieces. Which someone at 
> some point is going to have to do to pull mankind
> out of the mire.)
> >
> >      Joseph:  "Democracy is the current dominant
> force
> >in government, more and more countries are becoming
> >democratic, either through choice or having it
> forced
> >upon them.  This does not mean that the politicians
> >on show are intellectual, George W Bush as the
> prime
> >example. This does not mean that the people voting
> in
> >democratic elections are intellectual, religiously
> and
> >ideologically blinkered people vote around the
> world.
> >If the intellect is to achieve dominance over the
> >social level can it do so with having to go cap in
> >hand to those on the social and biological levels
> for
> >validation? Is that not immoral by MOQ morality?"
> >
> >      Excellent point.  It is immoral.  Since the
> >social is dictating the intellectual in a republic,
> >via votes and politics, then where is the niche for
> >the intellect in a large society?
> 
> Joseph. There appears to be no niche today. But
> state, a form of giant is 
> becoming more powerful, me guess is that it will
> become even more so over 
> the coming years. It will clamp down on personal
> freedom,"

      This is the nail that closes the coffin. 
Personal freedom being clamped down by a system that
is socially run.  The quality time to project,
reflect, and act as an intellectually motivated human
being disappears.  More and more we lose our
awareness.  More and more this snowball will tumble
and grow down hill, and we are closed out of our own
lives, which include our families and neighbors.  We
know longer are even aware of what kind of freedom we
could have in our actions and the perspectives we have
- narrowed!  Conformity is on the loose.  I go into
the woods and my eyes open up.  It takes time.  I have
to spend quite a bit of time in the woods to clear my
mind in order to notice that the wind is blowing.  I'm
stuck in my head and it takes awhile for me to get my
senses open again to a wider awareness this life has. 
I'll be in the woods and hear only my thoughts about
what happened at work or in the grocery store.  Then
the trickling sound of water from a nearby creek is
heard.  Back to my thoughts... I hear a bird sing...
back to my thoughts... Oh, how green the leaves are
becoming... etc...  Until I finally settle out of my
own head into a larger world where life is more than
just my cultural perspective, but I must include the
squirrels way of life, too.  Why?  because it is here.
 In the towns of this earth the woods are kept out,
our senses our dulled, and our perspectives of what
this world is (even via what our senses could tell us)
is narrowed into a walled world of buildings and soon
our thoughts blocking everything out into a smaller
and smaller world until we settle into the woods into
a world that quietens thought into a role that is not
so major when the world at large is understood.  

   JB continues:  "...a good thing, if 
> the process is exploited properly, the same problems
> will remain, none of 
> those involved will have the intellectual gumption
> of how to turn the ship 
> around. Who will they turn to, when it finally dawns
> on them? The superman? 
> Those that possess intellectual quality in
> abundance, who live apart, in 
> self sufficient communities, independently of any
> state, whilst still having 
> tendals in the state machinary.
> >
> >      Joseph:  "Is a national figure not of higher
> >value than a journalist or the average reader of a
> >newspaper?"
> >
> >      No, and I think that's your point.  The
> social is
> >being valued higher than the individual where the
> >intellect works.  The intellect can work socially,
> but
> >not vice versa where the social hand shaking in
> >Washington shapes the kind of intellectual
> >development.
> >      Sometimes I wonder if Washington was caught
> in
> >debate where nothing much was happening and their
> >influence upon society was diminished because of
> the
> >arguing that, that would actually be better.  Yet,
> a
> >system, the giant, is currently dependent on the
> >social representatives passing bills.  If they
> >couldn't do much anymore because argumentation is
> >paralyzing legislation, then wouldn't we notice DQ.
> >People would be putting in their votes and the
> >opinions are made, yet, the actions due to the
> >diversity of people's knowledge and desires could
> >actually benefit a DQ event.  People would notice
> >their opinions on the debate table being put into
> >play, back and forth, the debate could go, and
> people
> >would then realize that what they want and what
> others
> >want is not going to happen.  Therefore locals will
> >have to make more decisions on their own where
> >geography might cut-down on the diverse opinions on
> >the national level.  These are all if's, with no
> >current reality.  Sure the bipartisanship in
> >Washington has become more center stage, but bills
> are
> >still passing.  This was just a thought.
> >
> >SA
> >
> 
> Questions for debate, do the masses have to be
> involved in politics? Is 
> there not enough, matters of more pressing concern
> to be thinking about? 
> Should the political judgement of someone like Lila,
> who is socially poor, 
> and intellectualy no where have a say in matters of
> grand politics?

     Politics is on the social level, but wouldn't
matters of the intellect be another branch of gov't
where intellectual decisions could be analyzed and
made.  This would be in step with what your saying. 
Lila couldn't be in that intellectual department or in
politics shaking hands and being buddy-buddy with
someone in order to persuade them socially to join
their identity group.  Matters of more pressing
concern?  For me that would be when will I see my wife
again, and when will I get some of this work done in
my new house.  Dry wall and painting so we can move
into the living room and open up some boxes to move in
- the mold and dust was sickening but we got it out. 
Nothing much was fixed at this house for decades, the
drywall had the date 1912 on it with newspaper
covering it (probably to keep the mold from spreading
into the air).  This house is much like this culture. 
Cover the problems up, put 6 layers of wallpaper on
the side walls, and don't take anything down that
could easily be removed and fixed just put tape on the
vent shafts instead of screws why take the quality
time to actually fix it when you can just try to cover
the drywall in the other bedroom that is falling down
with some cheap paneling.  You may have heard.  Cut
the Amerindian child's hair and he will be well on his
way to becoming non-Indian.  
     Yet, the intellect is much more of an effort and
time needer so care and excellence are properly
attended to.  Intellect is not so forth coming due to
its' lack of static identity being so near DQ.  A lot
of words are necessary at times to explain this level
of understanding to stabilize the heavy DQ influence
that injects into this level.  We could go on for
hours and still not fully explain DQ so to even try to
stabilize DQ with any static quality, as you well
know, is a worthless effort.  This kind of
stabilization of DQ is recognized in Pirsig's 'What is
quality?'  No answer, yet, and any static try as far
as I know, will not happen.
     But our effort on the intellectual level for an
intellectual static quality is valiant.  It's like
this.  A quick throw of the seeds in the sand to get
corn or wheat will not get you there.  You need
irrigation or enough rain.  You need caring hands and
hope.  Without that sense of hope that the corn will
grow, well... people would suffer from their anxieties
and might even kill themselves or others.  So let's
commune with each other to pick up those tender
spirits of ours.    
     I also think about when I might go fishing again.
 At this moment it is passed midnight.  I am working
two midnight shifts (tomorrow and the next night) so I
am staying up late to get myself adjusted.  
     The wife and dog are sleeping on the mattress
that is laying on the dining room hard floor.  I can
see them as I type this while I sit at on a log that I
lacquered about 8-9 years ago at the small kitchen
table with the bathroom light next door left on or
else the electric to the socket the computer is
plugged into will shut down.  
     The bedroom needs painting, but the living room
is more vital so we can call up the carpet people to
come out here and lay some.  So we work a lot on the
house during the day.  Put some dry wall up on the
side walls today.  
     This is what I think about mostly.  I have 5 days
off coming up and the wife and I are going to her
mothers and her cottage on a lake.  Fishin', now
that's what I wait for, and then the real involvement
for me with life begins.  Fishin' with my wife is an
added specialty so chattin' becomes something else to
do in-between the lapping of the waves.  No longer
shut up away from the larger world where the wind
blows.

   JB continues:  "Viva la intellectual evolution.
> The road may be hard, but everything of value comes
> at a cost. Let us be the 
> first to pick up the burden that keeps on being put
> off, to no longer pass 
> the parcel from generation to generation. Some one
> at some time is going to 
> have to get the ball rolling, hwy not now? There is
> only now!"

     And that's why some of the precious free time
that I have is on this computer addressed to the
MOQ.org, so the intellect gets some exercise.

SA

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