[MD] From each... to each

[Platt Holden]

Hi SA:
 
[Platt previously]
> > I wouldn't place all the blame for "separations" on
> > money. Value placed on 
> > alternate attractions in the modern world has a lot
> > to do with a it.

[SA] 
>      I agree with you, that all the blame is not on $,
> value is a legitimate deeper claim for these
> separations.  I guess I was focused on all the values
> and alternate attractions you speak of, and how much
> of this is driven by 'getting the $', which in this
> culture is associated with consumerism.  The economy
> is closely linked to how much people buy.   I do know
> after 9-11 that President Bush asked everybody to keep
> buying products.  He knew that if consumer confidence
> fell this country would have taken a 'bomb' that Bin
> Laden was really trying to set off.  The hitting of
> the U.S. economy, which if that goes downhill - this
> culture goes downhill.  This culture is an economy
> culture that without such economy chaos 'could' (I am
> not sure, but project with confidence) rein in the
> streets.  People in this culture are glued to getting
> their $ and being able to buy stuff with their $.  If
> this would ever stop, the streets would be full of
> angry mobs.

What you describe is called a "depression" which the U.S. lived through 
in the 30's without angry mobs in the streets like one sometimes sees 
in Muslim and South American countries which are less developed 
economically. Although there are some aspects of developed countries 
which are not especially attractive, their success in providing people 
with the possibility of happiness is much greater than that provided by 
undeveloped countries, proven by millions who, given the chance, vote 
with their feet. 

> SA said earlier:
> > > Exactly, cell phones are just ropes
> > > holding the
> > > culture together.  Without interpersonal
> > > communication
> > > this culture would fall apart.
 
> Platt said earlier:
> >  Don't forget the role of movies,
> > radio, newspapers,
> > TV and other major 
> > media outlets in holding the culture together.
 
[SA]
>      Oh, yes, we are stretched so thin.  Without any
> of these would we have a life?  You ever hear people
> say, even with all of these things at their disposal,
> that they are bored... please something of quality
> enter the lives of people.  I mean a quality found in
> the beauty of just living and perfecting the morality
> of the spirits of humankind.

Actually the Victorians were the last culture in which the values of 
which you speak were held forth as desired goals, symbolized by the 
"Torch" being passed from one generation to the next as Pirsig 
described in Lila. Douglas MacArthur in his farewell speech to the 
cadets at West Point cited that torch in emphasizing "Duty, Honor, 
Country." As Pirsig pointed out, many of the values held in high esteem 
by Victorian society were flawed to a fault. But there's no question 
they had high aspirations and some admirable qualities that are lacking 
in today's vapid and amoral entertainment culture.  

>   Platt said earlier:  "Sorry to hear about your
> friend. A few who contribute to this site think taking
> drugs in moderation is somehow enlightening and point
> to Pirsig's experience with taking peyote as directly
> responsible for the insights that triggered his
> metaphysics. I have my doubts. In any case, I don't
> recommend drinking or drugging under any
> circumstances."
> 
>      I recommend Lame Deer 'Seeker of Visions' to
> anybody.  He was a Lakota Amerindian alive during the
> mid-1900's.  He was involved in the Peyote Church, but
> woke up he says to the real Lakota way of life where
> living is not just the real Medicine, but the real
> human being knows life fully by the old way - which is
> as the human being we are, not by what peyote has to
> say about the world, but by what a human being has to
> say about a world as living as a human being would
> only be the true, proper, old way of understanding
> what life is as a human being. 

You lost me. Guess I have to read the book.

>   Platt said earlier:  "Maybe you'll have a creative
> breakthrough under the influence that will save the
> world. But, my skepticism of such an outcome knows no
> bounds."

[SA] 
>      Yes, this is a motivation of mine, and the
> skepticism is with me, too.  That's what this whole
> rant and rave about $ became.  I do this at times if
> you haven't notice from some of the posts I've sent in
> the past.  Somehow I still have hope versus chaos so I
> guess I haven't crashed into the unwelcoming world of
> where all levels except chaos rein.

Take heart, my friend. We are constantly fed a diet of doom and gloom 
by the media (and some of our friends) because negative news and 
attitudes always trump the positive. Seems to be a trait of human 
nature. But so long as you have a roof over your head, food on the 
table, a loving wife and access to the woods and a fishing spot (and no 
fear of being arrested for what you say), all is well.

Platt