[MD] Intellectual activity

[aesuszynski]

Hey, Ian

"Welcome Alice, glad you could make it."

I feel a little like Carroll's Alice having been dropped through the 
Rabbit's hole with a bunch of people who are speaking about the unspeakable.
Philosophy is for people who have the time for it. And because of the 
current times we do have the time. It's for the masses, the wretched masses 
yearning to breath free.... and who can find time to break away from 
"American Idol".

Alice

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual activity


> Alice, Arlo, Platt n'all
>
> Welcome Alice, glad you could make it.
>
> [Platt said to Alice] Of course, one wonders if the claim that truth
> is provisional is also provisional.
>
> [and Arlo responded]
> Joyous is the "fact" that at the core of all attempts to symbolically
> code "reality" is paradox and recursion.
>
> I say, it can be great fun arguing with Platt, who is skilled in using
> rhetoric to ridicule those who disagree with him :-)
>
> I agree 100% when Arlo says "reality is paradox and recursion"
> And I add "real-life is therefore pragmatic"
>
> Logic and "knowledge" tempered by the kind of wisdom you clearly have 
> Alice.
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On 5/12/06, Arlo J. Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> Opinions are sometimes expressed harshly by accusing the other guy of 
>> being an
>> idiot...
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> Or a Marxist.
>>
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> If you haven't read Lila yet, by all means do so. It represents  Pirsig's 
>> latest
>> thinking whereas his thoughts in Zen were tempered by  New Age fads at 
>> the time
>> it was written.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> By all means, read Lila. However, much better to keep ZMM as your 
>> foundation,
>> and see Lila as emergent from this central idea, rather than dismiss all 
>> of ZMM
>> because it doesn't fit your political ideology.
>>
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> Of course, one wonders if the claim that truth is provisional is also
>> provisional.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> Joyous is the "fact" that at the core of all attempts to symbolically 
>> code
>> "reality" is paradox and recursion.
>>
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> it's true that water is H20 in the U.S., Siberia and Timbuktu.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> No, Alice, it's not. And here you'll need to go beyond the SOMist 
>> ideology Platt
>> adheres to. "H20" is simply one possible intellectual pattern to describe
>> inorganic patterns of value. In a recent post to Craig I included a long 
>> quote
>> from Lila which Pirsig uses to explain why the "objective world" seems 
>> similar
>> to different people.
>>
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> The liberal view that objective truth doesn't exist leads inevitably to 
>> an
>> attitude of all-embracing tolerance.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> This is classic Straussian neoconism. "Objective truth" is a SOM 
>> position. Keep
>> in mind that this is what Platt advocates, not the MOQ. Take a look at my
>> recent post to Craig, with many full paragraphs from both ZMM and Lila 
>> that
>> represent Pirsig's view on "objective truth". If you want to adhere to an
>> SOMist view, by all means, that is your choice. But be clear, the MOQ is 
>> not
>> SOM. Of course, if you don't simply dismiss ZMM for being ideological 
>> different
>> from what your Party says, you'll know this.
>>
>> [Platt to Alice]
>> So we see appeasement towards law breakers, both here in the U.S. and
>> internationally. Can anarchy or totalitarianism be far behind?
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> Or fascism?
>>
>> Arlo
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