[MD] Intellectual activity

[aesuszynski]

Platt,

For me style is a large part of the message. How can I take the message 
seriously when the presentation is awkwardly excecuted?
When a person writes, they must imagine their audience. When I read Rand, I 
got the message that she thought that if she shoved her message often enough 
down the reader's throat, he would swallow it and certainly never raise any 
objections. It was such a done deal..

Life bears no resemblance to Rand's world or at least no life I have ever 
experienced does. But then, she's Russian.

My experience of Crichton is the same. I have only ever read his lighter 
novels and found him to be entertaining, but pretty formulaic and also widly 
successful. So I was particularly anxious to see what he did with the issue 
of environmentalism. It was the same old thing...good guys and bad guys. 
Since I already agreed with him that the issue is too complex at this time 
to consider it a crisis, I didn't need to be convinced, but I wonder who in 
the world would have been based on his novel. Perhaps people who haven't 
thought about it much.

Pirsig, on the other hand, is a wonderful writer. I didn't feel manipulated, 
but transported.

Alice




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden at davtv.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual activity


> DMB, Alice, All:
>
> I'm amused to note that critics of Ayn Rand invariably knock her
> writing or her personality, but few want to deal directly with her
> ideas. Same with Crichton's "State of Fear."
>
> I also note in passing that in Chambers' critique of Rand, he blasts
> her for being anti-religious and a celebrant of a Marxian  "godless
> world." Pirsig is also anti-religious and believes in a godless world,
> as do many who contribute regularly to this site.
>
> Also like Pirsig, Rand is no fan of pragmatism. And like Pirsig, Rand
> presents a morality founded on reason, not religion or social
> tradition.
>
> So in the realm of idas, Rand and Pirsig share some common ground,
> including the most important idea of all -- individual freedom from
> oppressive social values.
>
> Dismissing Rand as a kook is like dismissing Pirsig as a cult figure.
> Since both attack some sacred cows, the boo birds come out in droves.
>
> Platt
>
>
> [Alice]
>> Oh great, another Ayn- slammer.
>>
>> "To Chambers the book was a literary and philosophical nightmare. Its
>> plot was 'preposterous', its characterization 'primitive' and
>> caricatured, and much of its effect 'sophomoric'. It was not, in fact, a
>> novel at all, but a 'Message': the anti-religous gospel  of 'philosophic
>> materialism', in which 'Randian Man, like Marxian Man, is made the
>> center of a godless world'.
>>
>> I was eighteen when I read "Atlas Shrugged". I did not attend the
>> "university", but was instead working and I would read it on the bus. At
>> first it was intriguing because I had never been exposed to such ideas
>> before and it ran counter to what my generation was espousing in the
>> seventies.But  she just wouldn't let up. All of the good guys were great
>> looking strong, beyond brilliant and brave, while the bad guys were
>> stupid and evil. The dialogue was made up of five page soliloquys. It
>> really was, as Ian likes to say,"unsubtle" to the point of  absurdity.
>>
>> I know people were caught up with it and it has made a renaissance
>> lately. Maybe it's because I was not a "student" that I could see
>> through it.
>>
>> But,  I think everyone should read it.
>>
>> I just read "State of Fear" by Crichton. So many people loved it that I
>> thought I'd give it a try. I had the same feeling as I had reading Rand.
>>
>> Alice
>
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