[MD] Static latching & faith

[David M]

Hi SA

Your comments seem along the right
lines to me.

DM


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather Perella" <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Static latching & faith


> Hello dmb, dm, and others,
> 
>> SA asked:
>> SQ is quite meaningless?
>> 
>> dmb answers:
>> No. I have an understanding of static quality. Its
>> DM's explanation of 
>> "borders" that I don't understand.
>> 
>> SA asked:
>> Now whatever it (sq) means to you, does it ever come
>> and go on any Pirsig 
>> level?
>> 
>> dmb answers:
>> I don't know what "come and go" is supposed to mean
>> here. And I don't know 
>> what DM meant by it either. In fact, "come and go"
>> is one of DM's vaguely 
>> poetic phrases that I complained about in the first
>> place. What's the deal? 
>> You guys are posting from a keg party and you're all
>> falling-down drunk, 
>> right? Is that it? Well, that really hurts, man. Why
>> wasn't I invited? Oh 
>> wait, I know why. Its a party for people who
>> actually enjoy strings of 
>> vaguely poetic phrases...
> 
>     Yeah, you missed it!  It was awesome stuff!  All
> that non-alky beer... wow... I'm getting dizzy...
> wait... BBBBBAAAAMMMMM!  
> 
> 
>> SA said:
>> I know SQ is not meaningless, maybe DQ, yet, that
>> could even be argued 
>> against.  SQ is full of definition having all sorts
>> of lines and borders 
>> encasing something that delineates it with a value
>> that is not nameless (DQ) 
>> but has identity.
>> 
>> dmb says:
>> More seriously and with less cruelty, I agree that
>> sq is full of definitons, 
>> but other than that I really don't know what you
>> mean either. And for pretty 
>> much the same reason that I'm not getting DM's
>> meaning either. Encasing 
>> something that delineates it? Huh? 
> 
>     Sometimes poetry has a way of drawing something
> up that is mystical, which is of good quality.  I
> understand the vagueness your talking about, and if dm
> meant something more specific than what I am about to
> explain, then dm you can explain your assumptions to
> us.
>     To encase or delineate?  A square does this, so
> does a triangle.  These are geometrical shapes, very
> mathematical.  Thus, the definition provided by the
> lines making the borders of these shapes define
> something that is mathematically called geometry,
> nothing vague about that.  And these shapes, squares,
> circles, triangles, etc... are delineated by these
> lines and borders.
> 
>>  dmb contines:  "DQ is maybe
>> meaningless but is not 
>> nameless and has identity? Huh?
> 
>     DQ is named, but that name is not what DQ is. 
> Try to give an exact name to DQ that is full of
> precise definition.  Identify DQ, not the no-thing
> which cannot be identified.  I am talking about the DQ
> that is exactly DQ, but since DQ is a no-thing or
> something vague, or in other words, DQ is that aspect
> of quality that when you ask, "What is quality?" and
> can't fully answer the question then you are trying to
> describe the DQ aspect of quality that you cannot
> fully answer and therefore provide definition.
> 
>> dmb goes on:  "I have no idea what
>> that's supposed to mean. 
>> I thought DM use of the word "borders" was supposed
>> to mean something in the 
>> context in which he said it, which was a comment
>> about transcendence and the 
>> inadequacies of scientific empiricism with respect
>> to transcendence. Is that 
>> what you're talking about?"
> 
>     Ooops, maybe I stuck my head in something I have
> no idea about and I apologize, because I have no idea
> what that means.  So, no that's not what I'm talking
> about, maybe.  Maybe, because I don't know exactly
> what dm is saying here.
> 
>> dmb continues:  "If you're trying to help
>> out there, I appreciate 
>> it. But I just don't see it because I don't know
>> what you mean."
> 
>     This is what I meant, and poetry will do this at
> times, which makes it full of quality.  Poetry can be
> vague and somehow poetry shows the DQ aspect of
> quality even though you are using words, which words
> usually have this more SQ, but in poetry the mystical
> comes into view and you can have full fledged quality,
> DQ and SQ.  You have to watch out for poets who try to
> say things with mystery, and even try to sound vague
> and 'off-the-wall' on purpose in order to get the
> reader to see DQ.  To shock the mind into a DQ
> experience.  Poets will do that, I will do that at
> times.  I'll say something that seems to have nothing
> to do at all with what we're talking about just to
> encourage the the words to jump off the page and to
> hopefully get the reader to think for him or her self.
> I'll say something that is not very well defined on
> purpose so the reader will have to fill in the gaps
> all by themselves.  Sorry if poetry does this to the
> reader at times, but the intention is to free up your
> own mind.  
>     So if dm intended the borders and lines to do
> this to you, then let us know dm.  If not, then I am
> interrupting a conversation that has a context that I
> am not sure about.  I explained myself to you dmb, and
> tried to explain something above with a serious,
> non-poetic definition of what I thought borders and
> lines meant.
> 
> Thanks, 
> SA 
> 
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