[MD] Intellectual activity

[David M]

That's right. Look out another Alice coming down!

David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "aesuszynski" <aesuszynski at npgcable.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual activity


> Hey, Ian
>
> "Welcome Alice, glad you could make it."
>
> I feel a little like Carroll's Alice having been dropped through the
> Rabbit's hole with a bunch of people who are speaking about the 
> unspeakable.
> Philosophy is for people who have the time for it. And because of the
> current times we do have the time. It's for the masses, the wretched 
> masses
> yearning to breath free.... and who can find time to break away from
> "American Idol".
>
> Alice
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual activity
>
>
>> Alice, Arlo, Platt n'all
>>
>> Welcome Alice, glad you could make it.
>>
>> [Platt said to Alice] Of course, one wonders if the claim that truth
>> is provisional is also provisional.
>>
>> [and Arlo responded]
>> Joyous is the "fact" that at the core of all attempts to symbolically
>> code "reality" is paradox and recursion.
>>
>> I say, it can be great fun arguing with Platt, who is skilled in using
>> rhetoric to ridicule those who disagree with him :-)
>>
>> I agree 100% when Arlo says "reality is paradox and recursion"
>> And I add "real-life is therefore pragmatic"
>>
>> Logic and "knowledge" tempered by the kind of wisdom you clearly have
>> Alice.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ian
>>
>> On 5/12/06, Arlo J. Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> Opinions are sometimes expressed harshly by accusing the other guy of
>>> being an
>>> idiot...
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> Or a Marxist.
>>>
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> If you haven't read Lila yet, by all means do so. It represents 
>>> Pirsig's
>>> latest
>>> thinking whereas his thoughts in Zen were tempered by  New Age fads at
>>> the time
>>> it was written.
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> By all means, read Lila. However, much better to keep ZMM as your
>>> foundation,
>>> and see Lila as emergent from this central idea, rather than dismiss all
>>> of ZMM
>>> because it doesn't fit your political ideology.
>>>
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> Of course, one wonders if the claim that truth is provisional is also
>>> provisional.
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> Joyous is the "fact" that at the core of all attempts to symbolically
>>> code
>>> "reality" is paradox and recursion.
>>>
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> it's true that water is H20 in the U.S., Siberia and Timbuktu.
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> No, Alice, it's not. And here you'll need to go beyond the SOMist
>>> ideology Platt
>>> adheres to. "H20" is simply one possible intellectual pattern to 
>>> describe
>>> inorganic patterns of value. In a recent post to Craig I included a long
>>> quote
>>> from Lila which Pirsig uses to explain why the "objective world" seems
>>> similar
>>> to different people.
>>>
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> The liberal view that objective truth doesn't exist leads inevitably to
>>> an
>>> attitude of all-embracing tolerance.
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> This is classic Straussian neoconism. "Objective truth" is a SOM
>>> position. Keep
>>> in mind that this is what Platt advocates, not the MOQ. Take a look at 
>>> my
>>> recent post to Craig, with many full paragraphs from both ZMM and Lila
>>> that
>>> represent Pirsig's view on "objective truth". If you want to adhere to 
>>> an
>>> SOMist view, by all means, that is your choice. But be clear, the MOQ is
>>> not
>>> SOM. Of course, if you don't simply dismiss ZMM for being ideological
>>> different
>>> from what your Party says, you'll know this.
>>>
>>> [Platt to Alice]
>>> So we see appeasement towards law breakers, both here in the U.S. and
>>> internationally. Can anarchy or totalitarianism be far behind?
>>>
>>> [Arlo]
>>> Or fascism?
>>>
>>> Arlo
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