[MD] Intellectual activity

[craigerb at comcast.net]

Steve,
Don't buzz off.  Unless this turns you on (reference to John Belushi & the bees, SNL circa 1980's.  Explanation upon request.)
Your posting was most informative & helps to standardize & explicate our terminology.
Does VincentEdisonLuther (VanGoghThomasMartin?) represent the 3 facets of your personality (ArtisticInventiveSpiritual)? 
Craig

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Vincent Edison Luther <vincentedisonluther at yahoo.com> 

> Hi Gene, Craig, Ayar, whoever else I may have missed, 
> 
> I've been away from the MOQ for a while but I used to 
> post fairly regularly. I wanted to comment on trying 
> to see where money fits in the MOQ. 
> 
> I think it's important to remember that the static 
> levels that Pirsig talked about refer to different 
> types of patterns of value. 
> 
> When we think about money we are talking about a buch 
> of different patterns that fall into different levels. 
> If we are referring to the physical aspects of 
> currency we are describing inorganic patterns (size, 
> shape, color, hardness or softness, etc). If we are 
> talking about thinking about what to spend money on, 
> then we are talking about intellectual patterns 
> (patterns of thought). If we are referring to the 
> unconscious forces such as celebrity and branding that 
> influence our buying habits, we are talking about 
> social patterns. 
> 
> > ayar wrote: 
> > > 
> > > I believe that moq implies that all objects are 
> > inherently dynamic, 
> > > regardless of moq-hierarchical orientation. 
> >Think 
> > of moq as a prism that 
> > > accepts dynamic input (any object) and outputs 
> > discrete bands, as it were, 
> > > which may be labeled according to moq (bio, socio, 
> > etc.) The problem as far 
> > > as I can tell is that objects don't come 
> > pre-defined (they are dynamic after 
> > > all) and any resultant values are largely 
> > subjective. In other words, 
> > > resultant of what? The process of unfolding 
> > reality? Of individual 
> > > perception? Of the moq, the whole moq, and nothing 
> > but the moq? I can't say. 
> > > 
> > > In any case, objects don't belong to static 
> > categories. Objects are 
> > > dynamic. 
> 
> 
> I think the problem here is that you can't talk about 
> objects prior to the dynamic/statict split. Once 
> you've identified an object, it is already static or 
> you couldn't be talking about it. 
> 
> In MOQ objects are usually thought of as inorganic and 
> biological patterns. 
> 
> 
> I forget who said this: 
> > My personal Dichotomy is seperating Reality into 
> > Objects and Interactions. 
> > Objects exist on their own, and only come in contact 
> > through interactions. 
> > By object I mean both physical and immaterial, ideas 
> > are just as much 
> > objects as lawn furniture I feel. 
> 
> To be more MOQish you may try thinking of objects in 
> terms of patterns of value. You may be talking about 
> the same thing and if so it would be helpful if you 
> stayed with Pirsig's terms. 
> 
> > I consider objects as the static, and interactions 
> > as the dynamic. So money 
> > could exist as a Static Social Object, but the way 
> > it interacts with other 
> > things is Dynamic Quality. Same way a chair is a 
> > Static Physical Object, and 
> > stubbing my toe on it is Dynamic Quality, resulting 
> > in such static Objects 
> > as a Bruise, Pain, Irritation and quite possibly 
> > some cussing. 
> 
> Toe stubbing is a pattern of behavior and therefore 
> static. Though if you are the person stubbing his toe 
> there is both a dynamic and static aspect to the 
> experience since pure experience is prior to this 
> split. 
> 
> I think the interactions you are talking about are 
> still patterns. 
> 
> It sounds like you are thinking of experience as the 
> interaction between a subject and an object or other 
> subject which is pure SOM. 
> 
> Let me know if this helps or if you want me to clarify 
> or maybe just buzz off. 
> 
> Regards, 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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