[MD] Neoconservatism

[Platt Holden]

Hey SA, (Arlo mentioned)

>      Steve said:  "Intellectual patterns are
> maintained through copying
> of rationales. We call our most stable intellectual
> patterns "true" or "common sense." We judge
> intellectual patterns based on consistency with other
> high quality intellectual patterns and consistency
> with experience. True and false only apply to the
> intellectual level."

Be careful of the true/false dichotomy or Arlo will be on your back 
with his "nothing is certain because there are no absolutes" outlook on 
life, except his low opinion of neoconservatives. :-)

Steve's analysis is based on the premise that "we" agree on certain 
undeniable truths, and that "we" can recognize quality intellectual 
patterns when we see them. Except in the realm of science and 
technology, these premises are arguable. My neighbor's intellectual 
patterns are, for the most part, low quality to me. After all he voted 
for crazy Al Gore and the guy whose name I've forgotten who married the 
Heinz fortune.  

>      Platt, this is more of what I'm saying,
> concerning Steve's explanation above.  The collective
> versus individual, freedom versus order, the values
> debated as to whether they belong on one level or
> another level.  As I said in the last post I sent,
> maybe these values are on the intellectual level and
> we are just debating not the level, but the values on
> a level.  

As Pirsig makes clear, individual liberty is an intellectual vs. 
society issue. High quality for the social level is to make everyone 
equal. High quality for the intellectual level is allow everyone to be 
the best she can be. 
 
>      As Steve also explains:  "Society does not equal
> the social level. Nor does it equal the values that
> society perpetuates. The social level refers to a type
> of pattern of value. I recognize this type of pattern
> as those that are perpetuated through unconscious
> copying of behavior.  Biological patterns are
> maintained through DNA.  

Government is a social level value. Where is the unconscious copying of 
behavior in that? 

>      This comes close to maybe a better explanation
> that separates the levels without debate, and the only
> debate left would be the values within the level, for
> now.  One question I have with Steve is 'unconscious
> copying of behavior".  This would put dance on the
> intellectual level.  What of copying of behavior that
> is not truly copying, but is original?  Is that, at
> first, intellectual behavior that could turn social
> level?  What of realization?  We are copying
> somebody's behavior,  and then realize we are doing
> this?  At first I guess it is social level, then this
> realization is intellectual level?

Good questions. I'll also be looking forward to Steve's answers. 

Platt