[MD] Distinguishing Levels

[Steve Peterson]

Hi Platt, (and SA)

> Steve's analysis is based on the premise that "we"
> agree on certain 
> undeniable truths, and that "we" can recognize
> quality intellectual 
> patterns when we see them. Except in the realm of
> science and 
> technology, these premises are arguable. My
> neighbor's intellectual 
> patterns are, for the most part, low quality to me.
> After all he voted 
> for crazy Al Gore and the guy whose name I've
> forgotten who married the 
> Heinz fortune.  

Steve:
I can't see what this has to do with what I said. I
never said that we all call the same statements
"true," just that intellectual patterns can generally
be  judged on a true-false scale and that that idea
may be helpful in distinguishing social and
intellectual patterns.  I wonder if you understood
that but still wanted to take the opportunity to bash
Democrats and hammer on about absolutes.


Steve: said:
>"Society does not
> equal
> > the social level. Nor does it equal the values
> that
> > society perpetuates. The social level refers to a
> type
> > of pattern of value. I recognize this type of
> pattern
> > as those that are perpetuated through unconscious
> > copying of behavior.  Biological patterns are
> > maintained through DNA.  

Platt said:
> Government is a social level value. Where is the
> unconscious copying of 
> behavior in that? 

Steve:
(As far as I know it was Wim who first suggested that
we may identify patterns of value by the way they are
maintained/latched. I think his was a great idea that
really clarified the levels for me. I just wanted to
give credit where credit is due.)

For me government is far too broad a concept to place
on a single level. I'm sure you admit that our
Founding Fathers where engaged in intellectual
activity when they created our government.  When
government occurs at the point of a gun (as you like
to remind us that it ultimately does) it is
maintaining order in a biological way.

I think you'd have to be more specific about the
patterns of human behavior that you are referring to
to be able to see if they are maintained through
unconscious copying or by some other means.  

What distinguishes Government from ancient social
patterns that maintained social and economic order in
society prior to Government? Are we really talking
about Law? Law has to be one of the greatest
intellectual achievements (ideas) of all time. It is
the idea that we can strengthen and stabilize social
patterns that we like and elmininate social and
biological patterns that we don't like by using
intellect.

I also like the types of forces analogy for
distinguishing the levels that I think you introduced
me to years ago. Inorganic values are those that hold
material thinks together. Biological values are what
maintains life. Social values are the forces that hold
a society to together, and intellectual values hold
ideas together.

Also, I never meant to throw "unconscious copying" out
there as a definition of the social level or as the
only way to think about how social patterns are
maintained--just as a way that might be helpful for
classifying patterns. I am aware that it isn't helpful
for you, Platt.

Regards,
Steve







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