[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Individual level)

[Platt Holden]

[Gene]
Platt, you're need to misunderstand astounds me. Government is a vast
conglomeration of patterns, both social and intellectual. Is that 
really a difficult concept? Humans exist on all 4 levels, can't a 
Government exist on more than one?

[Platt]
What is it that you don't understand about the following description  
of the levels by Robert Pirsig from his SODV paper? You will see that 
government exists not on multiple levels but on one, the second or  
social level:.

"The blocks are organized in the order of evolution, with each higher 
block more recent and more Dynamic than the lower ones. The block at 
the top contains such static intellectual patterns as theology, 
science, philosophy, mathematics. The placement of the intellect in 
this position makes it superior to society, biology and inorganic 
patterns but still inferior to Dynamic Quality. The Metaphysics of 
Quality says there can be many competing truths and it is value that 
decides among them. This is the very essence of William James' 
philosophy of Pragmatism which Bohr greatly admired. The name 
"Complementarity" itself means there can be multiple truths. 

"The social patterns in the next box down include such institutions as 
family, church and government. They are the patterns of culture that 
the anthropologist and sociologist study. 

"In the third box are the biological patterns: senses of touch, sight 
hearing, smell and taste. The Metaphysics of Quality follows the 
empirical tradition here in saying that the senses are the starting 
point of reality, but -- all importantly -- it includes a sense of 
value. Values are phenomena. To ignore them is to misread the world. It 
says this sense of value, of liking or disliking, is a primary sense 
that is a kind of gatekeeper for everything else an infant learns. At 
birth this sense of value is extremely Dynamic but as the infant grows 
up this sense of value becomes more and more influenced by accumulated 
static patterns. In the past this biological sense of value has been 
called the "subjective" because there values cannot be located in an 
external physical object. But quantum theory has destroyed the idea 
that only properties located in external physical objects have reality. 

"The bottom box shows inorganic patterns. The Metaphysics of Quality 
says objects are composed of "substance" but it says that this 
substance can be defined more precisely as "stable inorganic patterns 
of value."

[Platt previously]
I identify the levels like Pirsig does, by their dominance or
subservience to levels below and above."

Pirsig makes it clear that the social and intellectual levels are human-
centric. Thus, to define the levels in human terms seems to me
appropriate.

[Gene]
No person exists entirely in a single level. We remain at all times a
conglomerate of them all. Sometimes one of them gets the upper hand and
dictates behaviour (When I'm reading a good book and I Really have to 
pee, the biological will beat out the intellectual and I'll stop to go 
to the bathroom). But it's always a balancing act between them all.
And to say that terrorists are in any way not also following their 
social and intellectual levels is madness! They're as smart as you, 
with a culture much older than yours or mine.

[Platt]
Yes, terrorists are really smart --it's highly intelligent to commit 
suicide and kill innocent bystanders at the same time to assure being 
surrounded in heaven by a bevy of beautiful virgins. And what does the 
age of a culture have to do with anything? Do you seriously propose 
that the older the culture, the better?

[Gene]
I have a question for you Platt. What about understanding do you 
dislike so much?

[Platt]
I have a question for you Gene. What is there about in plain English 
that you can't understand?

Platt