[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Brujo story)

[ian glendinning]

Steve,

Very good summary, I agree with every word here on both the MoQ levels
and on Platt's take. Whilst admiring the rhetorical prowess, I too
have held out hope of irony many times, but alas no.

Ian

On 5/31/06, Steve Peterson <vincentedisonluther at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Platt,
>
>
> > > [Steve]
> > > What intellectual patterns won? I saw that whole
> > story as being set
> > > pretty much in the social level.
> > >
> > > [Platt]
> > > The brujo made an intellectual connection with the
> > white man:
> > >
> > > "The brujo had shown he could deal successfully
> > with the one tribe that
> > > could easily wipe them out any time it wanted to.
> > It wasn't just a sweet
> > > singing voice that made him governor of Zuni. He
> > had real political
> > > clout."
>
> Steve says:
>
> That's your evidence for an intellectual connection
> and your whole theory about the brujo story supporting
> your SOLAQI-like MD legacy-seeking improvement upon
> Pirsig's work, i.e the intellectual = individual
> versus social = the collective?
>
> I just reread ch 9 (you know, the chapter where he
> introduces his static-Dynamic split as the first cut
> of Quality), and I decided that it really is about the
> static-Dynamic split as the first cut of Quality
> rather than a conflict bewteen the intellectual and
> social levels since he never mentions that in the
> entire chapter.
>
> I am really disappointed that you continue to cling to
> your statement that the point of the brujo story is to
> show that the brujo representing the intellectual
> level in the form of an "individual" wins out over the
> the social level which you like to think of as the
> collective, and that you provided that quote as
> evidenence without any detectable irony. (Were you
> being ironic?)
>
> It seems to me that if Pirsig's point was about
> intellectual-social conflict he would have been
> explicit about it. He never beats around the bush with
> that sort of thing.
>
> Come on, Platt, It won't kill you to admit it. Repeat
> after me, "I, Platt Holden, was as wrong about the
> Individual level in general and the brujo story in
> particular as Bo was about SOLAQI. Further, I will no
> longer seek to leave a legacy by trying to improve
> upon Pirig's MOQ by renaming or redrescribing levels
> and will be satisfied as having the argumentative
> tactic known as the Platteral Shift as my only legacy
> in this discussion group." ;-)
>
> In all seriousness, though I really think you have
> gone off the deep end with this Individual level thing
> the way Bo did with SOLAQI, I agree with Pirsig's
> statement that the MOQ has had no better friend.
> Without you I think this discussion group would have
> degenerated long ago into New Agey nonsense in its
> attempt to understand DQ. With your conservative
> views, you are the rock that we sharpen are arguments
> against. When the conversation lulls you are always
> ready with a quote or provacative statement to get the
> discussion going again. That is your legacy as far as
> I am concerned.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
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