[MD] Distinguishing Levels (Individual level)

[Steve Peterson]

Hi Platt,

> Here are some of the things that Pirsig has said about the intellectual
> level where I don't think it would make any sense to substitute
> "individual" for "intellectual":

Platt:
"Here are my interpretations of what Pirsig said that led me to the 
individual level conclusion:"

> 'After the beginning of history inorganic, biological, social and
> intellectual patterns are found existing together in the same person. I
> think the conflicts mentioned here are intellectual conflicts in which
> one side clings to an intellectual justification of existing social
> patterns and the other side intellectually opposes the existing social
> patterns. A social pattern which would be unaware of the next higher
> level would be found among prehistoric people and the higher primates
> when they exhibit social learning that is not genetically hard-wired but
> yet is not symbolic.'

Platt: ""Intellectual justification" implies thinking by individuals vs. social patterns."

Steve: Pirsig is saying that whether one is verbally defending a social pattern or an intellectual pattern he is still participating in intellectual patterns.In other words, he doesn't want to say that only people defending intellectual patterns are participating in intellectual patterns whereas in your formulation, only those defending individuals over the collective are individual level people. You and Pirsig are not talking about the same thing.


Platt: "As for my emphasis on the individual being just a "conservative 
perspective," I thought it was liberals who champion individual rights 
such as free speech, freedom of the press, trial by jury, etc. Where 
have I gone wrong?"

Steve: I guess I can't see why else you would want to rename the intellectual level other than to make capitalism appear intellectual and socialism appear social level. I think Pirsig said something like the moral superiority claim of socialism is in the fact that socialism is the idea of an intellectually guided society whereas the moral superiority claim of capitalism is it's openness to dynamic quality. I guessed that you were putting your economic theory dispute with liberals on a social versus intellectual plane when it is actually a dynamic-static issue. But you can say best what you intent is. Why is it so important to change Pirsig's names for the levels?

Regards,
Steve






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