[MD] One for Platt & Ham

[Ron Kulp]

So we're to blame for trying to stabilize and bring democracy to the
Middle East? Maybe Arlo wants to feel guilty about our trying to extend
intellectual values. But, I don't, not for a minute.

Platt 



Extending intellectual values at gun point is another affair..the
question is,are we trying to bring democracy and stability to the middle
east?
(Ron getting on his soap box)
I think the west is reaping the harvest of imperialism. it has met an
indiginous population it can not assimilate (it may be hard for
westerners to understand that not everyone WANTS a mcdonalds on their
corner or drink coca-cola )   it would be convieniant for the imperial
nations to have a neat little answer like it did for the colonization of
the north america, "small pox". it only killed a specific racial group,
descimating two thirds of  a "pesky" native population making it a more
managable problem.The wealth aquired
>From "free" gold, land and resources made this a dynamic society, and
ultimately a world power, Hitler also used this  "manifest destiny"
Ideology when annexing europe. Only when it was focused on "us" it's
peers, it was seen as immoral.
Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting
for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic
church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his
book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God
and country.
Let this be a warning to the U.S. like I said before, if the U.S. is not
careful, it risks becoming the very thing our fathers died fighting
against.
Hypocracy is a sin,  sin's root is syntax meaning "missing the mark" I
think that's in ZMM.





-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ham Priday
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:32 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] One for Platt & Ham


Ant, Arlo, Khaled, Ron, Platt --


Come, come now, gentlemen.  Intelligent people shouldn't have to resort
to acrimony and insults to get their point across.  And haven't we had
enough
"packaged propaganda" from the politicans over the last few weeks?   I
can
assure you that Platt is not an anti-semite, Khaled, and there are  no
bigots to my knowledge in this forum, although we sure have a
preponderance
of anti-conservatives.   If we can't deal civilly with different
viewpoints
here, how in the world can we expect the secular factions in the Middle
East to agree to a united Iraq?

Khaled mentioned Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" in which he
"talks about the dumbing down of this country and how people are told
not to think."  I agree that there is a "dumbing down of this country";
but most of it comes from apathy and narrow-minded thinking.

Look, we suffered a direct attack on our homeland in 2001, and there was
no historical precedent but to retaliate against the attackers and their
supporters.  We couldn't find Bin Laden, so we did the next best thing.
We toppled the Hussein regime which had harbored terrorists, thown out
the UN inspectors, and murdered thousands of its people.  Despite the
fact that we found no "active" WMDs, we had every reason to believe
Saddam was producing them.  We provided support and opportunity for an
oppressed Muslim population to take control of its insurgents and form a
free Iraq.  Their inability to do this is their shame, not ours.

Okay, so we underestimated the viciousness and intolerance of the tribal
morality, and have paid dearly for this mistake in terms of mounting
casualties and lost prestige.  Does that warrant the wrath of the free
world we were defending?  Would it have been been wiser to do nothing
while the extremists carried out their jihad to annex Europe and the
U.S. under a new Islamic caliphate?  Even now, Europe and the U.K. are
finding it increasingly difficult to contain the Muslim invasion and are
without a clue as to how to assimilate them or prevent the
"Islamification" of their national cultures.

Considering Arlo's litany of arms and missiles supplied to
underdeveloped nations, I happen to be strongly opposed to the U.S.
trading arms for hostages -- or for any other reason -- including the
defense of Israel.  It has seemed to me that the monitoring of arms
across national borders, and perhaps even military intervention to
control it, is a function that the UN is well positioned to perform.
That would of course necessitate an international arms agreement.  Until
we have the insight and gumption to illegalize the international sale of
arms, we're going to be confronted by enemies carrying weapons tagged
"Made in USA" or "Made in China".  This is adding insult to injury, and
we are long overdue for a position statement on the arms issue.

Maintaining peaceful relations in the international community is a
sticky wicket these days.  The introduction of nuclear weapons hasn't
made it any easier.  We have the choice of sucking our thumbs in the
hope that we can negotiate productively with the enemy, or taking
pre-emptive action, which is usually a matter of bungling it through
until the conflict has been "stabilized".  Yes, war is barbaric and
immoral, but I believe Western Civilization is worth defending at the
cost of sacrificing lives -- even mine or my son's if it comes to that.
I would like to think that I speak for the majority of my fellow
citizens.  After all, what would we be today if the American
Colonialists or the doughboys of WWI&II had not been willing to lay down
their lives for their country?

Cheers,
Ham


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