[MD] BLINK!(the haunting of the barbarians)

Fri Nov 3 11:15:32 PST 2006

Ian,
God said to abraham kill me a son, Abe said man, you must be puttin me
on.
-Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of ian glendinning
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 1:59 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] BLINK!(the haunting of the barbarians)

As I suspected Ron,

So the initial gut instinct is valuable ... tells you something you
worth listening to ... but should not be the sole basis of action.
(That's why I ultimately found Gladwell too simplistic.)

Don't get me started on the global politics in this thread (we have
enough of our own in MoQ land). It's not that I don't want to debate
them, that's what philosophy is for, but as Matt was at pains to point
out to DMB, the form and basis of argument matters too (that's also what
philosophy is for). If people simply lead with their partisan political
prejudices, the debate is pointless (for a philosophical
group) - useful only for exposing examples of those prejudices and
misconceptions - plenty of heat but no light.

BTW you may have acted unwisely, but you were right to exercise your
freedom to do so, and clearly you have learned the lesson about flipping
into the wise bit (from the bozo bit) before actually acting.
Net progress for the world.

Don't think twice, it's alright ? ... maybe not Bob (Zimmerman) Talking
of jews ... no OK.

Onward and upward.
Ian

On 11/3/06, Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com> wrote:
>  Ian,
> That's just it, I did'nt bother to think of what the situation was. 
> Nor did I consider the consequences. "incorrect use" of the jin.
> Might have been the right course of action but employed at the wrong 
> time or in an unwise manner. Drawing the paralell to the Current 
> situation in the mid-east we are mired in. The blink seems to be a 
> preconcieved projection. You have an opinion on certain issues before 
> you run into the circumstance. Being beaten as a boy, I would have 
> loved to have had someone step in...so..there I was. Faced with this 
> circumstance with nothing but my own expierience...my choice, "unwise"
.
> Maybe this hints at that elitism.
> -Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of ian glendinning
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 1:26 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] BLINK!(the haunting of the barbarians)
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> A great conclusion, but not without it's difficulties, as you found.
>
> Your question
> "IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO ENFORCE YOU INTELLECTUAL VALUES, IS IT 
> MORAL TO DO SO?"
>
> Yes, if you are enforcing them over social values, BUT ...
>
> How can you be sure your values were entirely intellectual, and that 
> what you were seeing is just social value and not at least partly 
> intellectual value too. (Life's just complicated enough, as I often
> say.)
>
> No, you cannot enforce intellectual values over other intellectual 
> values, you need to find an intellectual process towards the right 
> outcome, and in such cases one winning over the other is not 
> necessarily a desirable outcome.
>
> In the stepping in to sort out the wife-beating situation, you made 
> that assessment and risked your judgment. That's what freedom is
about.
> (There was another downside to that risk ... besides the one you found

> ... it may have been a situation where there was some issue you had 
> missed ... and you may have been in the wrong ... but as a moral 
> person, you would have said "oops sorry" and tried to rectify your
mistake.
> Making mistakes is essential.
>
> I doubt you can have made that intellectual over social / biological 
> judgment in a "blink" without even a few seconds of 
> intellectualisation though, or prior intellectualisation, which you 
> brought to the surface in the blink. Interesting nevertheless.
>
> (I have a theme running at the moment on the apparent need for some 
> kind of intellectual elitism, though I can't point you at anything 
> very significant yet.)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On 11/3/06, Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com> wrote:
> > In conclusion to all these threads it occurs to me there is a common

> > theme running through all of them IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO ENFORCE

> > YOU INTELLECTUAL VALUES, IS IT MORAL TO DO SO?
> > I have quite abit of experience addressing this issue, I used to 
> > (just
>
> > because I was big and well trained) Get involved with domestic 
> > disputes, a guy was hitting his wife, I'd jump in and "extend my 
> > moral
>
> > values"
> > On him..this led to a huge mess, the women attacked me for attacking

> > her husband, neighbors saw this and I was now the bad guy ,see where

> > this is going? I was persicuted for what I thought was helping out, 
> > using that "blink" expierience I saw a bad picture and I 
> > straightened it. ..the wu-dan shan would say, "un-wise" I employed
the "blink"
> > Which they call "jin" incorrectly. Positive and negative jin are 
> > very similar to SQ and DQ there is also a third jin A nuetral jin 
> > which is a state of "formless form" manifesting formless form 
> > physically was the wu dan shan martial art.
> > When employed with wisdom is impenitrable.
> > This was my conclusion on this week at the MOQ (MD).
> > Thank you
> > -Ron
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org 
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 
> > pholden at davtv.com
> > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:22 PM
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [MD] No more SOM and no more money!
> >
> > Quoting Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>:
> >
> > > I see your paralell, but is that what Iran is doing? Or is that 
> > > what
>
> > > the U.S. is doing.
> >
> > That's what IslamoFascists are doing.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org 
> > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 
> > > pholden at davtv.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:09 PM
> > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [MD] No more SOM and no more money!
> > >
> > > Quoting Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>:
> > >
> > > >  why work when you can steal?  Why co-operate when you can
bully?
> > > > That kind of thinking, selfish, criminal.
> > >
> > > In other words, biological, barbaric.
> > >
> > >
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