[MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Sat Nov 4 16:45:26 PST 2006

Ron,

No deal. Judaism is a faith, not a race.

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 12:55 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Micah
I think I have the evidence to prove my supposition, here it is..

 Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, Yehudim; Yiddish: ייִדן, Yidn) are followers of
Judaism or, more generally, members of the Jewish people (also known as the
Jewish nation, or the Children of Israel), an ethno-religious group
descended from the ancient Israelites and from converts who joined their
religion. The term also includes those who have undergone an officially
recognized formal process of religious conversion to Judaism. The current
Jewish population is over 14.5 million, the majority of whom live in the
United States and Israel.

The pivitol term is ethno-religious, so we are both correct. Deal? Or no
deal.
Ron,

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:33 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

 Ron,

I cannot convert to American Indian, but I can convert to Judaism. The line
is not blurred. The Jews are religious a group, not an ethnic or racial
group.

Micah
But Micah, do you see what you're saying? You could become part of the
Iroqoi if you wanted to, likewise with the jews, you would not share the
same ethnic roots with either, sure you would'nt be able to claim ethnic
rights of being native american but you could'nt claim ethnic rights of
being a semite either. Am I makin sense?
-Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Micah
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 12:13 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Ron,

I cannot convert to American Indian, but I can convert to Judaism. The line
is not blurred. The Jews are religious a group, not an ethnic or racial
group.

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:08 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

 Micah,
the distinction between "racial" and "ethnic" seems to be blurred, I have
not found where this is acuratly defined.
But the nazi's used to single them out by name and apearance, dare I go down
the list of racial slurrs?
No doubt Hitler used religeon but he used "racial superiority" to support
his endeavores too.
-Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Micah
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:57 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Ron,

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by Shirer, chronicles Hitler's use of
religion in waging war and persecuting peoples. Yes, the Hebrews are a
racial group, but Jews are a religious group, not a race. By the way
Palestinians are Semites, does that make people like Sharon anti-Semitic?

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:44 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Micah,
 Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for
the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and
experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein
Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country

I've already hit platt with this and he changed his opinion of it. By the
way Hebrews are a racial group too.
-Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Micah
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:36 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Platt,

The Jews are a religious group. The holocaust was the persecution of Jews,
therefore it was religious persecution. If the Jews were a race, it would
have been racism, but they are religious group and that makes it religious
persecution.

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:42 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Quoting Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com>:

> Platt,
>
> Was group of people did Hitler persecute? Was it the Jews? Aren't the
> Jews
a
> religious group? So isn't that religious persecution?
>
> Micah

I don't consider the Holocaust motivated by religious belief. I agree with
Pirsig that it was caused by "low level static social and biological
patterns whose overall purpose was to retard the evolution of truth and
Dynamic Quality."
But
Hitler did say he was God's appointed savior of the German people. So in
that twisted sense, the Nazis cyncially used religious belief to gain and
hold power.
But you still haven't provided evidence to support your assertion that
religion is "the most destructive force in history." I'm not saying such
evidence doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it.

Platt

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:39 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?
>
>
> Quoting Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com>:
>
> > Platt,
> >
> > How about WW2. Hitler was doing god's work, and his persecution of
> > the
> Jews
> > was religious, since Judaism is not a race. Our current fiasco in
> > Iraq
is
> > religious. Certainly Muslims think it is, even if we are just
> > acquiring
> new
> > markets for capitalism - while Bush says he is guided by god.
> > Religion
is
> > clearly the most destructive force in history. I will not give you a
> history
> > course to prove the point either, I only hold my children's hands.
>
> Hitler's persecution of the Jews was religious? Like our presence in
Iraq?
> Guess we have a different understanding of the word "religious."
> Anyway,
you
> don't have to give a history course to prove your point. Just a
> recognized authority will do, if you can find one.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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