[MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

[Ron Kulp]

[jim] 
My point is, that my world all starts with me.  If I can understand
better the MoQ, I will apply it in a 
meaningful way to everything I touch.  I think this discussion is as
important as anything in the world
[Ron]
Well said jim, now that we have the MOQ, like "enlightenment" what now?,
there is no "real"quality in simply knowing this, but, in it's
application to your life. A zen quote: "before enlightenment chop wood,
carry water. after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water" we still have
the same tasks to perform but with a different perception. This is very
important as you have stated. In the other thread I made a comment
About applying that -


      [Ron]
     A nuetral jin which is a state of "formless form"
manifesting formless form physically was the wu dan shan martial art.
When employed with wisdom is impenitrable. The martial arts
Are a physical manifestation of this force some call it tao some call it
quality they call it the "dance of life" like the shaolin
Monks, tao, quality, god, all living words everchanging undefineable
they are expierienced in every breath you take..the martail arts
Is not about fighting..it has little to do with fighting. It has
everything to do with following the way. In japan trimming the bonsai
Is a martial art, calligraphy is a martial art most successfully
performed by swordsman....you could argue every task you perform is a
martial art. It is a way of life. It is a way of thought. It is movement
and interaction that is mindfull of the way.


     How is this employed?  


Nuetral jin is like wu-wei, the wisdom is observing and knowing when and
how much positive or negative jin( DQ and SQ) to use .
They are tools  channeled through us. Wisdom comes of observance and
experience. Non-action is itself is an action.
In reference to a physical conflict Ie: Diversion of an attacking force
takes less energy than stopping it. Read "sun tsu The art of war". It is
the tao of warfare. It is also useful in any sort of conflict mental or
physical. It requires total balance Of mind body and soul..that is why
it is seen as  difficult and narrow.

-ron
-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of jjengele
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 9:58 PM
To: moq_discuss
Subject: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?


I wrote this letter a week ago before I changed ISP's.  I thought that
the topic 'So cometh the MoQ, what next? was getting out of hand when I
realized how it started and so I wrote this stuff. 
Jim Engele




At 09:59 AM 10/25/2006 gabby wrote:
>To all MOQers, is it merely enough that we partake in discussion and
end 
>it there? Discourse is important, but so too is metapragmatics.

I'll try to bring this thread back to where gabby started it.

the reason I joined this list a little over a week ago was because I've
been trying to integrate the MoQ 
into my life.  I first discovered it in 1998.  I felt the earth shift
under me as I read it and immediately 
recognized the significance first with ZMM and even more so with Lila.
I let the ideas stew inside my 
brain for a few years as I tested it out in various situations that
seemed relevant. My thinking was, 'if it 
continues to stand up and be valid after the test of time it will grow
in importance to me.' It has.

I now have two children who are growing up with or without my wisdom and
insight.  That has prompted 
me to really make an effort to implement the MoQ in my life and also in
theirs.  If I can set them up so 
they won't have to deal with this problem, that's one big problem out of
their way.  With a little luck, 
they will never even know that this trap has been cleared from their
path.  I'm aware that they will learn 
more through observation than anything so I am first and foremost trying
to understand the MoQ as 
clearly as I can so that my actions will speak louder than my words.
The guidebook/primer discussion 
seems like a great idea not just because of the opportunity to teach
children but also because of the 
simplification of concepts that is yet to be done.  

The MoQ is evolving as we speak as I've learned with Bodvar Skutvik's
letter equating SOM with the 
intellectual level.  I discovered this on the thread 'extricating MoQ
from SOM'.  It seems to me that the 
MoQ is applicable to everything.  I'm particularly interested in
politics and global corporatism.  Stella 
Lindblom has started a thread 'Capitalism and "the free market" was:
(redux ad nauseum)   ' that I'm 
particularly interested in.  (Unfortunately, she has decided to leave
the discussion so I won't be able to 
learn from her experience, I'm disappointed to say)

Things have certainly changed since Pirsig wrote ZMM.  For example, I
think that the American 
automotive industry incorporated the far more successful Asian concepts
of car building.  As RP 
pointed out, the Eastern cultures never really fell into the SOM trap.
It may be too little too late 
however for the US car industry.

I see the rise of the religious right and I can't help but think that no
matter how skewed their efforts are, 
that they are in no small part reacting to the very issue we are all
coming to terms with.  I hear them 
talk of the danger of moral relativism and I think of the monistic
'quality'.  Their instincts are right, I just 
don't like their methods.  Ironically, I see the religious right allying
with the political right and their 
common ground seems to be the epitome of moral relativism.

My point is, that my world all starts with me.  If I can understand
better the MoQ, I will apply it in a 
meaningful way to everything I touch.  I think this discussion is as
important as anything in the world.


Jim Engele
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