[MD] High horse of the metaphysical plain

Tue Nov 7 10:01:44 PST 2006

 SA,
     "Who said native americans are special?  Your not full-blooded
native american, and yet, your saying "we're not more special than
anyone else".
My father is half Iroqois and my mother is half miami..I was making the
point of the romantisizing. An image that is not there.
 My cousins are full blood, it is a common joke among us  how
-non-american indians percieve us. I'm sorry, them.
I feel isolated enough being half blood..being called an "apple"..and
non natives treat you funny too..thats right I am just me.
I got into this discussion group because after reading pirsigs work I
felt like there might be something goin on, something for me..
This "Intellectual redneck" or so I've been called. But I think now this
notion was foolish. It seems like a bunch of
Self important people arguin over how much smarter they are than anyone
else.  

"Do you mean ego letting?  Or do you mean spreading of ideas that really
don't go anywhere of practical use, meaning that we're just chatting
thinking we might actually somewhere with this chat for the rest of
society?" 

I mean chattering and saying nothing, I mean some get so caught up in
ego..picking knits and petty squabeling..
And by "respect" I mean to honor other things in this life other than
yourself.
SA, none of this is vented at you..alot of this is my own "shit".
Thanks for caring enough to ask questions
-Ron 

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Heather Perella
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:29 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] High horse of the metaphysical plain

     [Ron]
I certainly have to say  I have difficulty understanding the method here
sometimes.

     What method are you trying to understand?

     [Ron]
I'm re-reading Lila and I have to tend to agree with Pirsig, Natives do
not relate well, all this does seem pretty silly to me .. like a lot of
mental masturbation.

     Do you mean ego letting?  Or do you mean spreading of ideas that
really don't go anywhere of practical use, meaning that we're just
chatting thinking we might actually somewhere with this chat for the
rest of society?  What Case has said about 'shit happens', is not a new
concept, a flash of insight that nobody has discussed before.  'Shit
happens' is trying to state what dq is, which is undefined.  Case is
having difficulty thinking that the Way is undefined and unnamed, thus,
better than quality.  Yet, the Dao is a name, right?  The Way is a word,
right?  Quality is a word, a name, right?  Yet, what do they mean?  Case
is not saying anything new. 
The Dao is a name, but the Dao not named is the real Dao, and yet, while
your rereading Lila, you'll find at the end of Lila, "...the ultimate
Quality isn't a noun or an adjective or anything else definable..." 
Yeap, nothing new.

     [Ron]
I subscribed to have questions I have answered or explored in a hope of
furthering my understanding or looking at them from a differing
perspective. People tend to romantasize native americans and I never get
a straight answer from anyone. we're not more special than anyone else
nor are we some Nobel savage, some holistic insight "in touch". look, it
all boils down to "respect"  a dimishing comodity, it's no mystery. 

     Who said native americans are special?  Your not full-blooded
native american, and yet, your saying "we're not more special than
anyone else".  That holistic insight 'in touch' stuff comes from the
woods.  Marsha says it has to do with Buddhism, and I'm sure as Dogen
said, she will say 'Kill Buddha'. 
(maybe that was Dogen, but who said it doesn't matter which is the
point)  Case says it's the Dao.  I talk of the woods - whippdy doooo.  
     Your just human, as everybody else here.  And that Nobel savage
'thing'.  Hey, I'd rather live a simple life, and have the time to be
with my family, which I get now since my schedule changed.  It would be
nice to have smaller populations and woodsy lifestyles with others.
This isn't romanticizing this is dreaming and real evidence from the
aboriginals from Australia and others from around the globe.  Did they
die, fight each other, and all that terrible stuff?  Yeah, and so do we.
I like sitting by a fire, walking in the woods, meditating, and fishing.
These are just some of the dreams and actions that keep my gumption from
getting trapped.  So, these stay alive for me.  These events live.
Anytime I come up with another way to incorporate into what I call
woodsy lifestyle, while keeping this computer, I go with it... anyways.
     By the way, respect is a concept for those that like to fight and
make sure others stay out of ones way.  At least, that's what the
aggressive girls I work with make use of that word.  I'd rather like
life to walk the quietness... and that doesn't say anything to anybody,
just open-ended as the sky.

     [Ron]
One of the things that angered me was how Pirsig treated Lila when she
was showing him the "jungle queen" he may as well have crumpled up That
picture and thrown it overboard and said what do you know you dumb
slut,he had a perception of her of being a whore, which somehow devalued
her as a human being I think it's not allways about proving a point.
It's about becoming a human being,

     The MoQ.org has this atmosphere that makes people at one time or
another believe that many are just trying to prove a point, and who
cares what you or I or others are saying.  Discussion doesn't always
happen.  I keep writing just to say something.  People don't chat about
bears here, and yet, I say bears and maple trees.  It's just that quiet
point that I'm saying, which is stream full of rounded pebbles.

     [Ron]
We are all buying into an illusion of one kind or another what makes
yours better? Opinion?

     You seem to be making a point here, and directing towards something
happening on the MoQ.org.  This happens as I've said at one point or
another here. 
We've had these ego conversations before.

     [Ron]
I think a few of you need to get down off your metaphysical high horses
and check out whats going on under your own feet. You're missing an
awful lot. 

     Yeah, if I let myself perceive this, I see it, and maybe it's not a
matter of me letting myself perceive this or not.  Maybe I ignore it.
Maybe I like what some have to say, and not what others have to say.
Some people get so heated, they can't stand it when somebody says
something that differs so much from them, such as Stella's recent rant
that she will not be a part of this discussion group as long as Platt is
here.  That's silly.  If she really wanted to discuss, then she'd find a
way, right?  Find a way...
Hmmmm, find a WAY... a QUALITY... a DAO... a path in the woods...
anyways.
     You know what I do most of the time when I see Platt's posts.  I
erase them and don't read them. 
Sorry Platt.  But hey, I write in and oh, 85% of the time, probably much
more than that, I don't get a response.  So, I'm just getting something
off of my chest in an arena where I can throw something out there, like
fishing and chat, read what others have to say, and keep shaping my
perspective.  Perspective doesn't have to be shaped here by people
chatting back with you.  Perspective can be shaped by reflecting upon
your perspective, trying to type it the best way you see it, and then at
times I find something interesting that changes my perspective by what
others have to say.  I don't have a group of people locally that I can
chat to like this, so, I chat here.  No big deal.

     [Ron]
Case said the smartest thing all week, it is all a pile of shit, Dynamic
shit.The static shit is in your head. Nothing in nature is static only
your perception of it.

     Naaa, I'd say perception is dynamic too, if nature is dynamic.
Static is what sticks, like when I say tree.  You can define that word
tree and notice a tree somewhere, get a form visualized by noticed tree,
right?  Dynamic, for instance (and there are many
instances) is when I say the tree sings when the wind blows.  That might
have a meaning that goes on and on.
 A meaning that isn't sticking and some will have difficulty with that
one.  A meaning that is undefined, unless, I allow myself to know what
I'm saying, even if I'm not using the same words somebody else might us
to describe the sound made when the wind touches the autumn leaves on a
tree.  Sometimes, to me, it's a sound, sometimes it's a song, sometimes
a tree, leaves, and wind can't even be reached by poets, and so that
something about a tree, leaves and wind shimmers and hides from the sun
as the clouds pass on by. 

this tiny cloud hidden by a tiny leaf,
SA

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