[MD] tiny skull... change... nothingness...

Thu Nov 16 16:50:33 PST 2006

P.S. Never knew about the Chritian influence on
Buddhism, and you said Zen Buddhism as well has been
influenced putting Buddha into a deity role. This is
a far cry from Dogen wouldn't you say. Maybe this
deity role is more Rinza Zen, thus, an attempt to
shock or juggle the mind. 

Hi Heather,

I’m sure I don’t need to tell you about the “Melting pot” of Zen 
Buddhism. When I speak of Nothingness, it is more the Ancient to 
Medieval Zen, before Christian influence. This was a time of the Zen 
Masters, so I have my doubts any accounts are close to accurate. 

I have read, but couldn’t point to the books, of influences of Zen on 
Christianity as well, but this would not be the more dogmatic 
Christian religions, which are ironically more prominent in the 
Protestant faith here in the US. Jacob Needleman has some interesting 
thoughts on Contemplative Christianity in his book “The American 
Soul,”  as well as the American Indian influence on thinking and even 
politics. 

I have read where the Catholics have studied Nothingness, but have 
also read where Catholics have studied the Cosmos and even UFOs in 
Arizona, but have denied this is what it was they were studying of 
course -- wouldn’t want to upset those dogmatic Christians. ;o)

I have also had discussions with Christians here in the South, The 
Bible Belt, that would lead you to believe there is a bit more 
Contemplation in the Dogmatic religions than we might think. 

Maybe beyond the Drug Culture of the 70s, we may have actually made 
some strides here in the US at awakening. 

Who really knows? 

Chin

----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, November 16, 2006 0:30 am
Subject: Re: [MD] tiny skull... change... nothingness...
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

> 
>     I just want to say, Chin your posts have been
> pretty interesting, especially this one.  Glad your
> chattin' with us.
> 
> Spiritual Adirondack
> 
>  P.S.  Never knew about the Chritian influence on
> Buddhism, and you said Zen Buddhism as well has been
> influenced putting Buddha into a deity role.  This is
> a far cry from Dogen wouldn't you say.  Maybe this
> deity role is more Rinza Zen, thus, an attempt to
> shock or juggle the mind.  
> 
> 
>     [Chin] 
> > I can?t believe I have read the whole thing. I have
> > read ahead to all 
> > that has been said, and I ?Think? your term for
> > Essence goes beyond 
> > that which fits in with the Buddhist religions
> > influenced by Indian 
> > Christianity, and beyond that of Ether or Aether of
> > the 19th century 
> > to describe space, or that of Aristotle as the Fifth
> > Element, but what 
> > I see is a statement that ?We can know? the creator
> > or creation of the 
> > universe. I think maybe this is the difference
> > between Nothingness and 
> > Essence, but I couldn?t begin to explain Nothingness
> > as used in Zen 
> > Buddhism before the influence of Christianity, other
> > than to say 
> > Nothingness in Zen might mean ?We do not know,?
> > creation, or an end or 
> > beginning can not be identified, or even ourselves. 
> > 
> > I don?t think it is the same as Nothingness Theory,
> > which I think you 
> > could keep searching and find others who do not
> > offer even the same 
> > theory as the author you pointed to. I have.   
> > 
> > Per Zen Buddhism, the universe cannot be said to
> > have been created, 
> > nor have a beginning or an end, which does not agree
> > with the theory 
> > the universe was created at all. 
> > 
> > Is your Essence an attempt to explain the creation
> > of the universe? If 
> > so, I think this would explain the Christian
> > influence in the more 
> > modern Buddhist beliefs which placed the Buddha as a
> > deity. Zen 
> > Buddhism does not offer an answer, but only a means
> > for searching. 
> > 
> > I think Essence is more a Western way of looking at
> > things. Not saying 
> > this is good or bad, but just maybe incomplete, or
> > premature. Essence 
> > in more modern Buddhism could be translated loosely
> > as meaning soul. 
> > 
> > When I say Conscious Universe, it is a simple
> > conclusion that if we 
> > are only a small part of the whole, and we are
> > capable of conscious, 
> > the universe is also capable of conscious. 
> > 
> > I will not carry this further now, as it would not
> > have to do with 
> > Nothingness, and I think this needs be settled in
> > our minds first. 
> > 
> > Does that make any sense?
> > 
> > BTW, I am not Chinese, but have been accused of
> > speaking Chin-ese ;), 
> > Chin is just a play on my last name, Winchester,
> > which became 
> > Chinwhisker, which was shortened to Chin. First name
> > is Ron, which has 
> > evidently quit showing up in my emails for whatever
> > reason this time 
> > around. I have been using Chinwhisker as a
> > knick-name for years. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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