[MD] moral judgements

[David M]

Hi Platt

I wonder, why do you think it is that the question
of moral choices/decisions arises?

David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden at davtv.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] moral judgements


> SA --
> 
> A very interesting and perceptive taken the "seat" of morality --
> quietness. It reminded me of one of my all-time favorite sayings: 
> 
> "You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and 
> listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quiet, 
> still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be 
> unmasked. It has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet."   
> --  Franz Kafka
> 
> I was reminded also of Marsha's "I think the real key is paying 
> attention. If you are more aware you are less likely to do damage."
> 
> Sometimes I also try to reach into the depths of my being by asking it
> to "Speak, I'm listening." No one ever answers. There is nothing but 
> profound quietness. It's so quiet, it's scary. So I don't try it too 
> often. But my awareness is about as keen as it can get, and while 
> paying attention to any signal from within, I certainly can't do any 
> damage without.
> 
> Thanks for a provocative response to my question about a moral base. I 
> hope to hear from others.
> 
> Platt
> .
>> Platt,
>> 
>>     One more point to add, aside from being sick at
>> the moment, I've been thinking about what I said
>> concerning communication as a moral position of mine. 
>> You asked or said that I therefore find communication
>> between the levels as my moral judging by evaluating
>> my former response.  I agreed, but I'm discussing upon
>> the grounds of static quality.  Yet, you've got me
>> thinking.  I talk of this quietness often, and have
>> made numerous decisions by reflecting upon quietness. 
>> Therefore, I'm inclined to think that this quietness I
>> discuss is actually the seat of my moral position.  I
>> am weighing the levels according to this quietness. 
>> Is this quietness disturbed or not?  This, as for now,
>> seems to be closer to my moral position, and provides
>> enough definition to what the woods experience is, as
>> compared to work, which I tried to bring up as a
>> contrast that stifles the flow of action and quietness
>> of experience.
>>      Yet, again, my goal in meditation is always
>> reaching this quietness, so, this must be my moral
>> position.  I guess I never thought of this quietness
>> as holding my moral position.  I say quietness, not
>> silence, due to what quietness embodies.  It embodies
>> freedom due to allowing so much happen amidst itself. 
>> In the quietness of the woods, a far off twig can be
>> heard, and that's only a chipmunk on the next hill
>> across the hollow.  Even thunder occurs due to the
>> quietness allowing such an event to be
>> heard/communicated.  It is this quietness that allows
>> communication to occur on all the levels, yet, how
>> much quietness is present dictates how much clarity is
>> involved in any given communication/event/static
>> pattern.
>>      Sorry for the apparent:  'not able to give you a
>> straight answer right off the bat', but you had me
>> thinking, reflecting, and since this quietness is what
>> allows events to be noticed and my effort in
>> meditation is quietness, then I'm inclined to choose
>> quietness as my moral position where moral clarity
>> will be balanced-out, on its' own by the way.  The
>> only effort on my part is to want to experience the
>> quietness.  This quietness is always here for the
>> livin'.  When I experience quietness in the woods, the
>> quietness is of particular high quality taste. 
>> Quietness is the same everywhere I experience it, but
>> the experience of this quietness is tempered by a
>> number of events, and the woods provide quietness
>> where even the loudness of a thunderstorm is
>> considered white noise.
>>      Quietness is readily experienced.  To practice
>> experiencing quietness is the same as practicing to
>> walk.  We may all walk, if no injury prevents the
>> occasion, but how many can walk far, up hills, over
>> mountains, and even pick up the skills that may be
>> necessary to walk for days in the wilderness.  It is
>> the same idea as marital arts or Zen tea ceremony.  We
>> all may drink tea, but to be involved in a Zen tea
>> ceremony incorporates an experience of awe and
>> excellence (and this is only from perceiving one from
>> the outside looking in from movies and books from
>> those that have experienced ceremony in person).  Or,
>> painting, where is the best place to paint, Platt?
>>      What these all involve is ceremony, a static
>> pattern, a ritual, or in other words, practice. 
>> Practicing quietness helps habituate and focus the
>> experience that involves it (quietness).  This
>> practicing also has another word, as you pointed out,
>> called trance.  Practicing quietness puts quietness
>> into a focus that in experience is as a trance. 
>> Without this quietness, my awareness would be impeded.
>>  Thus, with quietness lived communication lines are
>> more easily opened and noticed.  As the experience
>> with quietness is lost, then the communication between
>> any level is further lost in the clutter.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> SA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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