[MD] Debate on Science_ReligionToday

Sun Nov 26 13:34:45 PST 2006

DM: Let's play the Nazi card thinks DMB, if you think that's a good 
comparison
you're dumber than I have given you credit for. I can't argue with 
something
that unrelated, sorry. Mind you if you really want some historical 
knowledge,
understanding why the Nazis had appeal would be illuminating on how 
they
were able to do what they did. Seeing the other's point of view is 
always
useful, and puts you in a stronger not a weaker position.
>
 Robbie says:

  Understanding why the Nazis had appeal?  It is easy: Substitute the Jewish community, with the way the bush administration  uses the T word.  The Terrorist are coming!, (and a Trillion dollars in annual defense spending can't protect us Americans).

  I Don't follow the mass media analysis and views of things too much.  But lately I hear our Iraq policy has spawned 3 civil wars, not just one. The Nazis used mass media spin the same way we do.

  I was draft age during the Vietnam war and I can recall some of the politics, but it seems this situation is turning bad faster.  The media was using terms like Vietnamization and "peace with honor" to avoid public realization, perpetuate the delusion, helping the public to understand that we actually were "not defeated" in Vietnam.

  We seem to be re-living history to a large degree. My solution would be to "Cut and run" as some people call it.  These past years will remain a serious black mark on American history.  We were seriously mislead when we ventured into this situation without significant support from the European Communities.

  I still don't understand the particulars on how?? Any discussion group ideas would be illuminating on how we americans were able to do what we did. Extracting ourselves from this mess seems near impossible.
   Robbie

David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
  > dmb says:
> Right, I should always be sure to say something nice about the nazis when 
> I
> complain about the Holocaust. One should always mention the upside of 
> things
> when condemning the Inquistion, the genocide in Rawanda and, Jeez, suicide
> bombers aren't all bad. They deserve to be complimented just like 
> everybody
> else. It's nice to comment positively on their appearance because wearing
> the bomb-vests usually makes them look fat.

DM: Let's play the Nazi card thinks DMB, if you think that's a good 
comparison
you're dumber than I have given you credit for. I can't argue with something
that unrelated, sorry. Mind you if you really want some historical 
knowledge,
understanding why the Nazis had appeal would be illuminating on how they
were able to do what they did. Seeing the other's point of view is always
useful, and puts you in a stronger not a weaker position.
>

> But seriously, Dave. I think that here you are asking me to play a pretty
> childish game and I ain't gonna do it. If it seems that you've had a hard
> time extracting positive comments about religion from me, its not because 
> I
> don't have any. Its just that I don't want to play games about it.

DM: So saying what you really think is playing games, who's warped?

> On top of that, you still avoided the same point, the dynamic superiority 
> of
> science and intellect.

DM: Is this historically?
Or can you see into the future?

But then I guess you'd have to avoid that point to
> defend the reactionaries. I can't imagine that you understand this point 
> and
> disagree. That would be too morally reprehensible for a person to admit.

DM: I think science has laid a massive challenge at religion's door, 
although
the belief that this e-nihilates religion is far from certain. Where will
dynamic change appear from in the future? I'm not as sure as you are
as to where that will be. But I'd like to see philosophy gain some new life.

Also, only yesterday religion was the site of change, dissenters challenging
authority, seeking authenticity. Science seems to have lost a lot of its
power for change quite quickly. You could say it has let us down, as
per the Maxwell chapter I sent you. You want a better understanding of
all this, take a look at Charles Taylor's seminal Sources of the Self.

It
> has to be the case that you don't get this point. That's what I mean when 
> I
> say you're allergic to this point. You won't get near it and it seems to
> cause you some kind of pain.

DM: No I just think you're a pain and going the wrong way to get to
where you want to go.

But there has been no real disagreement, just
> aversion and avoidance. Been taking Platteral shift lessons, or what?
>
> If you think something nice needs to be said about religion, please feel
> free to say it.
>
> And I'll feel free to say what I think regardless of whether it's nice or
> not.

DM: Like I could stop you! I think we've finished with this one for now.
It's been fun. Gonna put some cream on in case that rash breaks out
due to your continuous suggestions about it. You know after the 
Enlightenment
there was something called romanticism that had a few suggestions about
its obvious limitations, and these poles have been entangled ever since.
If we do not recognise the limits of science we get stuck in SOM I suspect.
My warnings are against the danger of your views falling back into SOM
because you get too into bed with reationary science/faith-secularism.

>
> How's that?
>
> Deal?
>
> Thanks,
> dmb
>
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