[MD] Quantum Physics

[Laird Bedore]

>> [Laird]
>> Yes... at some points I pictured you as sublimely "finger pointing 
>> at 
>> the moon", talking to others and passively hoping that they'd 
>> follow the 
>> direction of your finger and gaze on the moon. I could picture you 
>> eventually getting frustrated and impatient, saying "dude! look at 
>> the 
>> freakin' moon already!" That one got me laughing for quite a while!
>>     
>
> Hi Laird,
>
> You may not be too far off. I did have an ulterior motive when joining 
> in on the conversation. When Ham was talking about consciousness, I 
> thought maybe we could delve into what consciousness is, and what it 
> means to be conscious, but it turned into a “Look at my Essence” 
> conversation where consciousness comes from somewhere outside. 
>
> The moon I might see would be where MOQ came from in my eyes, and that 
> would be from self-reflection. 
>
>   
[Laird]
Wow, that's a little spooky. :)


> Chin) He has stopped talking to me twice now, and I don’t feel the 
> necessity to protect others here who have proven over the years well 
> capable of taking care of themselves, so I will just allow him to stay 
> in his own little world, with his own empirical truths. 
>
>   
[Laird]
Plenty fair enough. We can have our own conversation and discuss our own 
emprical truths. :)


>> [Laird]
>> I think the problem isn't so much with the use of any particular 
>> word, 
>> but understanding the meaning as a continuum of values rather than 
>> a 
>> specific value. It's sort of like a sensor in a piece of lab 
>> equipment- 
>> the sensor gives you the value from within the range of 
>> possibilities, 
>> but is not itself _the_ value.
>>     
>
> Chin) I was half-way kidding about using Areté as opposed to Quality. 
> Areté would have no meaning to modern man, but it seems some get tied 
> up in the simple definitions of Quality, like workmanship, which of 
> course misses the whole Essence (pun intended) of the word as Pirsig 
> uses it. 
>
>   
[Laird]
Yeah, I agree. I kinda missed the point on that one!


>> [Laird]
>> No worries. If you can get the Blue Haired Ladies to have some fun 
>> with 
>> Morality then we'll really be getting somewhere! :)
>>     
> [Chin]
> I’m afraid they had no fun, except probably feeling a little smug by 
> running me out of the church. It seems coming up with your own 
> interpretations of the Bible or as they called it “The Word” was not 
> allowed. I liked the stories in the Bible, and felt they had their own 
> little hidden meaning which might be defined as inner meaning for the 
> reader. I guess it is best to keep the word ‘Analogy’ limited in its 
> use to literature. ;o) 
>
>   
[Laird]
The churchgoers do get awful literal at times. The few I've talked with 
who agreed with the analogy approach were very enlightening. One was a 
Catholic priest in his 70s. I had quite an active history in 
Christianity in my youth (catholic and protestant faiths), and despite 
my general dismissal of religion these days it was a great learning 
experience. I'm still trying to get my dad (who was in a Catholic 
seminary for 3 years) to discuss his (obviously present but well-hidden) 
dissent with the religion, but he's tight-lipped in order to keep my mom 
happy.


> [Chin]
> This may get me in trouble here as well, as I saw ZMM as one man’s 
> trip into self-reflection, and how it lead to enlightenment. Lila was 
> just a continuance of this trip -- a trip into Quantum Physics, which 
> requires some understanding past what he has offered, but is that not 
> what DQ is all about? 
>
>   
[Laird]
Now quantum physics would make a fantastic topic! It's extremely 
fascinating and perplexing, and I'd love to expand my grasp of the 
concepts. I'll change the subject line to Quantum Physics!


> [Chin]
> A limited explanation of where Quality might mean could be found in 
> Lila;
> “The only difference between causation and the value is that the 
> word "cause" implies absolute certainty whereas the implied meaning 
> of "value" is one of preference. In classical science it was supposed 
> that the world always works in terms of absolute certainty and 
> that "cause" is the more appropriate word to describe it. But in 
> modern quantum physics all that is changed. Particles "prefer" to do 
> what they do. An individual particle is not absolutely committed to 
> one predictable behavior. What appears to be an absolute cause is just 
> a very consistent pattern of preferences.” 
>
> I did delve a little deeper in the world of Quantum Physics, and feel 
> it helped me some to understand what Pirsig was talking about, and 
> quite possibly a better understanding of the world around us and our 
> relationship to it and each other. 
>
>   
[Laird]
My "study" of quantum physics and mechanics consists of various articles 
I stumble upon when I have some free time at work. Not much at this 
point, but the more the merrier. There was a really great little intro 
into quantum mechanics I found one day. I'll have to find it again and 
post the link tomorrow though - I'm in desperate need of some sleep!


> [Chin]
> I’ll shut up now, as I feel I have gone well out on a limb, but would 
> be willing and appreciative of any more discussion of any of this. 
> Don’t pull any punches as I do not feel I am ego-centric or 
> emotionally unstable. ;o) 
>
>   
[Laird]
Is it okay to pull some punches if my knuckles are sore? :)

-Laird