[MD] are theism and mysticism mutually exclusive notions?

[david buchanan]

Case said to dmb:
Let me make something crystal clear here. I have apologized for nothing. I 
have soften my position on nothing.

dmb says:
Didn't say you did. I said that getting you to admit that there actually is 
a distinction between mysticism and theism was LIKE trying to get an apology 
out of Archie Bunker, which was meant to suggest that you know there is such 
a distinction, but you won't quite admit it out loud. And I didn't say that 
your position has softened. I said your position was to soften the 
distinction as much as possible, to make it seem as ambiguous as possible. 
These criticisms are both aimed at describing your unsoftened and 
unaplogetic postion.

Case said:
I have answered your objections several times in a couple of threads and...

dmb says:
Yea, I know. And I'm saying your answers were weak, full of bogus moves. 
Sorry, man. I thought that scrutinizing the other guys argument was just 
part of the game here.

Case said:
All three of these options have elaborate structures of culture and systems 
of thought built around them. They have coexisted for millennia sometime 
peacefully, more often not.

dmb says:
Actually, the perennial philosophy doesn't have much of a tradition. The 
term was coined in Modern times.

Case said:
But I have learned from many discussions with many people of different 
persuasions that when a person says that they have elected to value one 
belief over another that pretty much ends the discussion. No amount of 
reason or evidence matters. My brother believes that money makes the world 
go round and that all that matters in politics is that the oil is flowing 
and cash registers are ringing. Any attempt to explain that there are other 
values at work or that mutual cooperation and codependence are important 
just elicits a smug dismissive stare. People chose their fundamental beliefs 
mostly by default. They take what is handed to them and get on with their 
lives. Telling them
they are irrational is irrelevant if rationality in not important to them.

dmb says:
Yea, but I'm not your brother and this forum is not about exchanging 
unexamined common sense or asserting what we believe by default. This is 
where we discuss metaphysics and stuff. Here, we're supposed to offer some 
kind of case, Case. Don't you think?

Case said to dmb:
...You are behaving irrationally. You apparently have a hard-on for theists. 
You constantly rant against them with inflammatory language that is 
disrespectful, uninformed by frequently funny has hell.

dmb says:
Really? You think I'm frequently funny? Thanks, buddy. Its mighty nice of 
you to say, even if its not true.

Case said:
You insist that I have dodged a point or ignored a question. These are 
rhetorically tactics that you seem to use reflexively and frequently.

dmb says:
Would it matter if I insisted that this criticism was made sincerely? If I 
do this frequently, maybe its because people frequently dodge the issue. 
Please consider the possibility that this is not just some kind of dirty 
trick, but rather the valid criticism of a common fallacy. You gotta admit 
that this is possible, at least.

Case said:
...I am curious about a belief system that attracts so many followers and 
motivates them to act as they do. I have studied Christianity in some depth 
because it is dominant in my neck of the woods. I disagree almost violently 
with the Christian right but there are Christians and branches of 
Christianity that I respect and admire.

dmb says:
Hmmm. See, I also think you have to admit that wasn't completely insane of 
me to suspect that you had a dog in this fight. I mean, this little 
admission doesn't comdemn you as hopelessly biased (And God knows you keep 
trying to convince me how open minded you are) but its pretty obvious that 
you have some amount of sympathy for one the sides. Seems like you gave me a 
pretty hard time about having a pretty reasonable suspicion. Maybe now you'd 
like to soften your position and apologize?  Just kidding.a

Case said:
...A post or so ago I thought we were about to go all kissy face. I was 
about to slip you some tongue and...

dmb says:
Call me.

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