[MD] Barfuersserkirche (been a bibliophile)

[ian glendinning]

Marsha and David ..

Interestingly you both make the same point ...
The "content" of one's work may be vaulable and satisfying, even
enjoyable ... it's "the prevailing system" that brings the
frustrations about what is actually valued. (Perversely, that seems to
be even truer in academia than industry / business generally.)

My agenda is that that "system" is not just some purposeful conspiracy
of the rich and powerful, (other than a kind of conseratism, with a
small c) that would be easy to fix. The metaphorical "conspiracy" is
as I keep saying, the legacy of "objectivism" throughout "western"
culture and spread thoughout the mixed economies of all the worlds
major cultures.

Only "counter cultures" seem to recognise any other kind of value,
which gives the whole environment in which we are debating it's
new-agey cultish feel, which is a major Catch-22 to progress.

Regards
Ian

On 10/8/06, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Ian
>
> Yes, to open debate. May I suggest that people
> often do have good values but actually feel unable
> to take decisions in respect of them. Are we not
> often influenced by the values that more powerful
> people/organisations hold? Such as employers
> and the wealthy?
>
> David M
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Barfuersserkirche (been a bibliophile)
>
>
> > David, good question ...
> >
> > What is being valued is some "mis-rationalisation" of the real quality.
> > That "mis-rationalisation" being the received wisdom of post-Descartes
> > objectivisation etc .... the whole Pirsigian agenda.
> >
> > Since I know you already knew that, I'm guessing you had a rhetorical
> > reason for asking ;-) Or were you just checking ?
> > Ian
> >
> > On 10/8/06, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Hi Ian
> >>
> >> What is being valued, rather that quality,
> >> would you say?
> >>
> >> David M
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
> >> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:54 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [MD] Barfuersserkirche (been a bibliophile)
> >>
> >>
> >> > Marsha,
> >> > You said
> >> >
> >> > I worked on
> >> > some incredible books and manuscripts.  I loved it, but the pay was
> >> > so low I couldn't afford the transportation to get there.  I went
> >> > back to IT until I had the opportunity to retire early.
> >> >
> >> > I think that anecdote is a microcosm of the whole issue facing us.
> >> > 99% of "normal" life does not value quality.
> >> >
> >> > I too "am working in IT until I can afford to retire early", which
> >> > isn't going to be too early at this rate ;-) (In my case "being able
> >> > to afford it" is bound up with commitment to raising a family.)
> >> >
> >> > Day job vs Life's work.
> >> > Ian
> >> >
> >> > On 10/6/06, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >> >> At 04:07 PM 10/6/2006, Robbie wrote:
> >> >> >Marsha said:
> >> >> >   I've always been a bibliophile and at
> >> >> >40 years-of-age decided to go back to University to get a Master's
> >> >> >degree in Library Science.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Ditto. Mine is the same story, except haven't found a paint brush
> >> >> > yet and I waited to age 50. Completed a community college program.
> >> >> > Now looking for a Master Program. Maybe UCLA.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Where (What program) did you study or consider studying?
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Robbie,
> >> >>
> >> >> I was accepted into Columbia University, but it was more convenient
> >> >> and affordable to go to a state university (Connecticut).  I went as
> >> >> a full-time student, and did get a MLS.  At the same time I was in
> >> >> the program, I was taking as many undergraduate art courses as I
> >> >> could get.  I started doing bookbinding, then book arts, then
> >> >> collage, then printmaking, and for the past 9 years painting.  I've
> >> >> never worked in a library.  I did work for four months in the
> >> >> conservation studio in the Sterling Library at Yale.  I worked on
> >> >> some incredible books and manuscripts.  I loved it, but the pay was
> >> >> so low I couldn't afford the transportation to get there.  I went
> >> >> back to IT until I had the opportunity to retire early.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best of luck to you.  Libraries are wonderful places!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >> >>
> >> >> Marsha
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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