[MD] Barfuersserkirche (ZMM & Dewey)

[ian glendinning]

David, Arlo, you exchanged ...

[David M]
There should be no curriculum only opportunities for exploration that can be
taken up or not. Free, dynamic, explorative and directed by curiosity.

[Arlo]
Do children, and college kids, *not* benefit from the guidance of an expert?

Isn't this just the recurring "freedom" debate.
It's pure motherhood - no-one could argue against it.
Everybody "approves" of freedom ... values it, sees its inherent
quality, etc ...
 but we are constantly blind-sided to the fact that freedom is defined
by the limits to freedom (as someone said earlier) ... boundaries and
signposts "make" freedom.

Ian

On 10/7/06, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Arlo
>
> Big difference between guidance and curriculum
> and agenda setting. Students, of all ages, should
> be able to pursue study in whatever way they want,
> sure they can take advice from who they want.
> Would such freedom cause collapse? Don't
> see why. Of course, children seem to seek out
> conformity all the time without encouragement.
> I think natural SQ and DQ can take care of themselves.
> Currently, the balance is far too heavy on previous
> generations stuffing their favourite SQ down our
> poor young throats. There is no greater intelectual
> integrity than that which says let's question everything.
> If the experts cannot justify themselves are they so
> expert? That's not to say you can throw away existing
> institutions, you gotta be able to replacethem with something
> better.
>
> David M
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ARLO J BENSINGER JR" <ajb102 at psu.edu>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 6:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Barfuersserkirche (ZMM & Dewey)
>
>
> > [David M]
> > There should be no curriculum only opportunities for exploration that can
> > be
> > taken up or not. Free, dynamic, explorative and directed by curiosity.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Do children, and college kids, *not* benefit from the guidance of an
> > expert? In
> > selecting or suggesting readings, for example? If the expert plays no
> > role, why
> > have classrooms at all? Why *not* just have a library? I don't mean these
> > questions antagonistically, I think they are genuine questions relating to
> > the
> > role of The Academy. And they apply at the curricular level as well as the
> > classroom level.
> >
> > Again I think we need to be clear that the "creativity beaten out of kids"
> > is
> > not a function of only "schooling". Family, church, peers, social groups,
> > teams, sports, etc. all exert the same type of power-structurating on the
> > child. Some would argue ANY social field, by its very nature, exerts
> > "violence"
> > on the child/person. And this is not necessarily a BAD thing. Conforming
> > to
> > social norms of behavior and thought is what has allowed the social level
> > to
> > emerge from the biological, and persist over generations, AND (way, way
> > back)
> > provide the foundation for the emergence of intellectual patterns.
> >
> > This type of conforming pull, I'd argue, is what makes a static pattern
> > (on any
> > level) a static pattern. The intellectual level persists because it
> > conforms
> > our way of thinking towards certain things. If we could abolish conformity
> > outright, the levels would collapse. Not to say that you, or anyone,
> > proposes
> > such an extreme, I say this only to highlight that the often called "sweet
> > spot" is what is important. Balancing static conformity with enough
> > "freedom"
> > to allow evolution forward (redundant on purpose), and not either leveling
> > or
> > regression.
> >
> > Seen this way, the role of The Academy *should be* to provide the ongoing
> > conformity necessary to prevent collapse, but in a way that fosters enough
> > freedom to allow for evolution. No? Getting there without significant
> > reforms
> > will be, no doubt, difficult. (One reason, I'd argue again, is the
> > changing
> > nature of The Academy from a place where those who are interested in
> > pursuing
> > intellectual patterns in their own right to a place where people come
> > looking
> > for skills and certifications to get a job... the whole "grade" issue Dan
> > brought out recently).
> >
> > Just some thoughts...
> >
> >
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