[MD] A formalised Code of Art

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

>From: Squonkonguitar at aol.com
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] A formalised Code of Art
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:18:23 EDT
>
>Dan:
>The more a person thinks about it, the farther away Buddha mind  recedes.
>
>Mark 11-10-06: Hello Dan.

Hi Mark

It's good to hear from you again - thank you for writing!

>This may be so, but you may have missed something of importance to the  MoQ
>in your later explanation.
>The term, 'Thinking' may be social thinking in imitated ritual  language or
>abstract symbolic manipulation.
>Abstract Symbolic Manipulation (ASM) is a far more Dynamic level of
>evolution than the level of Imitated Ritual Language (IRL) and it is my 
>belief  that
>the translated quote regarding killing intellectual patterns is mainly
>concerned with IRL. Lila has no intellectual patterns to speak of.

This is interesting but I find it obscures rather than illuminates the 
lesson of the quote... "kill all intellectual patterns." Talking has a habit 
of doing that.

>The Buddha never knew of Calculus - ASM.
>The People the Buddha attacked with his arguments were those so stuck in  
>IRL
>- thinking of this description - that the sq patterns of IRL were the 
>source
>of much pain and suffering. So to dissipate them is a release, a dying, a
>killing of the source of pain.

I think you're reading the quote in a way that leads one in circles.

>As such, it is also a leap in Dynamic growth toward freedom.
>The point is not to sustain a Dynamic point of view, but to use a Dynamic
>point of view to initiate change.

"And then follow Dynamic Quality" is freedom, according to the MOQ.

>
>Dan:
>Intellectual patterns of value obscure Dynamic Quality.
>
>Mark 11-10-06:
>Do they?

I think so.

>But do they though?

You're obscuring Dynamic Quality right now.

>Now we are in the realm of ASM and NOT IRL.
>Killing ASM patterns is a source of intuitive freedom to advance the  
>quality
>of the ASM repertoire itself - creativity, which is moral.

I sit and the grass grows on its own. What I mean to say is, creativity (for 
me) isn't the abstract manipulation of symbols so much as it is letting go. 
I don't know where "it" comes from. Do you?

>
>Dan:
>Translating this into Quality terms,
>
>Mark 11-10-06: What do you mean, 'Translating this into Quality  terms?'
>This quote has ALREADY been translated into Quality terms from the Buddhist
>poem.

Well yes, but I meant translating my first paragraph, not the quote. Sorry 
for the confusion.

>
>Dan:
>I think the above quote has to do with the practice of stilling the  
>internal
>dialogue we all have going on inside our heads. When the dialogue  becomes
>quiet, the thinking that normally obscures Dynamic Quality also ceases  and 
>"it"
>shines through.
>
>Mark 11-10-06: Exactly, but our, 'Internal dialogue' has two components,  
>IRL
>and ASM.

You are intellectualizing too much here Mark. Just stop thinking so much!

>The Buddha wishes to kill IRL big time to block religious patterns.
>Once religious patterns are blocked, the way toward ASM opens up, and/or
>total Dynamic Quality. Is it really possible to live in a state of pure DQ 
>in an
>evolving world?

I don't know.

>Back here in 2006 CE, not -2006CE of the Buddha, ASM patterns are killed  
>for
>creativity - evolution - and/or pure DQ. Is it really possible to live in a
>state of pure DQ in an evolving world?

I don't know.

>
>Dan:
>We remember.
>
>Mark 11-10-06: A cuddly way of putting it, but we can't remember nothing.

You just haven't remembered, that's all.

>DQ is death - nothing - no patterns.

Is death better?

>
>Dan:
>Meditation is one method of practice, becoming absorbed in one's art  
>another.
>
>Mark 11-10-06: Just sitting over a maths problem is a form of meditation.
>So, becoming absorbed in ones art is a form of meditation (e.g. motorcycle
>maintenance).

I think you're right yet formalized practice stresses right practice, which 
is to say techniques which lend themselves to the stilling of the internal 
dialogue by correct body posture, correct living, etc.

>
>There are many ways to still the internal dialogue yet it is also important
>to sustain biological and social functionings at the same time...
>otherwise degeneracy occurs and morality is not served by degeneracy.
>
>Mark 11-10-06: This is a fancy way of saying suicide is immoral, which is
>irrelevant as suicide isn't what the quote is saying.

Well no, although it certainly can be interpreted that way, which Robert 
Pirsig expounds upon in this section of LILA. I think he has laid out a good 
arguement and there is no reason for me to further elaborate here.

Once again, thank you for your reply,

Dan