[MD] guidebook/primer

[MarshaV]

At 11:49 AM 10/14/2006, SA wrote:
>Marsha,
>
>      SA:  Very interesting and simple way of
>describing this.  I like it.  I have some questions
>and comments for clarifications' sake.
>
>      [Marsha]
>Here's how I think of the Social & Intellectual
>Levels.  Both levels are comprised of thoughts (MIND).
>  The Social Level is SQ (thought) that is primarily
>subconscious, ritualized, or copied.  The Intellectual
>Level is primarily SQ (thoughts) that are conscious,
>individualized and manipulated.
>
>      SA:  The use of the idea - primarily - helps
>classify and demarcate social level and intellectual,
>since an exchange between the two always occurs, too
>(at least that's what I believe).  Those exchanges are
>either creative or degenerative.
>
>      [Marsha]
>Having stated the above, I can think of two reasons I
>would want to kill all thought.
>
>       SA:  I kill all thought, I believe, when I
>meditate, so I'm with you here.  Yet, for
>clarifications' sake, as Buddha holding up the flower
>to, I believe it was Bodhidharma, and then the Zen
>lineage begins.  The clarification is the translation,
>as we all well know by now.  It is that transmission
>of Buddha's experience, and Buddha knew how difficult,
>if not impossible, it would be to discuss his
>experience under the tree.  This is the same
>experience China had when Buddhism was introduced to
>this region.  The Chinese desired and read book after
>book of what the Buddha had to say.  Yet, no matter
>how much the Chinese tried to understand Buddhism, all
>the practitioners in China knew something was missing.
>  This occurred for centuries, until Bodhidharma said
>something like, the Buddha is here.  The Buddha will
>be experienced when one meditates.  Thus, began
>Chan/Zen.  If, we kill all thoughts, according to what
>your stating thoughts are, intellectual and social
>levels, then what we have left is dq (not bad),
>biological and chaotic levels.  Now, just having the
>biological and chaotic levels left over, if we follow
>strict Pirsigian levels, what we have left is
>biological and chaotic terrors and desires, and as the
>Buddha said, "All life is suffering."  Killing all
>thoughts, therefore, must be some kind of occurrence
>that leaves open the cultivation and rebuilding of the
>intellectual and social levels that are enlightened,
>or follow the Code of Art.  So, the killing of
>thoughts must eventually come to an end, meaning, we
>have different thoughts, thoughts that are dynamic and
>beautiful.  Does this make any sense?

Marsha:
Gosh SA, I like to keep things simple.  Someone suggested a new book 
co-authored by RMP and the Dalai Lama.  They might be able to 
synchronize East with West, issue by issue.  I'm certainly not 
qualified to do so.  But you bring up an interesting point.

Nourishing the body and breathing are Biological Level functions.  I 
would guess mental attitudes (thoughts) towards these biological 
functions and 'chaotic terror' (also thought) would be Social or 
Intellectual, most likely Social.


>      [Marsha]
>One reason would be to experience the present moment
>directly without the mental descriptive chatter.
>
>      SA:  This must mean, I know it does for me, not a
>total absence of intellectual and social levels, and
>only the biological and chaotic levels remaining.  We,
>maybe we, are talking about an intellectual and social
>level that have been redefined, enlightened, and
>follow the Code of Art, a moral excellence.
>
>      [Marsha]
>A second reason would be if I were mentally
>manipulating ideas within the Intellectual Level and
>wanted to find a solution beyond it.
>
>      SA:  Yes, this is very close, I don't know if I
>could even say it any better.  The destruction of the
>distracting intellectual level, replaced with an
>intellect that is clear, non-distracting, such as
>koans are clearly thoughtful, yet, are beautiful and
>clear the way for ones own insight, ones own
>experience.  Also, just as Buddha held up the flower,
>and Bodhidharma was struck, enlightened, and realized
>the Way.
>
>      [Marsha]
>Code of Art: the pure joy of achieving both reasons.
>
>      SA:  I believe what I was saying above fits into
>this statement of yours.  Once one achieves both
>reasons you've given, thus, the intellectual (reasons)
>is an intellectual level codified by art.  Also, the
>social level is.  These are understandings, and become
>established in our thinking.  We then further develop,
>cultivate, and beautify the universe.  This reminds me
>of the Navajo Pollen Path which goes as follows:
>
>Beauty above me.
>Beauty below me.
>Beauty in front of me.
>Beauty behind me.
>Beauty on my right.
>Beauty on my left.
>In beauty I walk the pollen path.
>
>This is a participatory universe.
>
>Does any of this make sense?


The only question you asked me (twice) was 'Does any of this make 
sense?'   I don't know, does it?   I'm not being sarcastic, I don't know.

Marsha